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Tomate payés
Mar 5 14:05
2 mos ago
45 viewers *
español term

árbol de coquitos

español al inglés Arte/Literatura Poesía y literatura
"El domingo pasado, mientras seguía una larga fila de hormigas que cruzaba la plaza de los toboganes altos, Ulises encontró un botón amarillo enterrado junto al árbol de coquitos."

It refers to a type of pine tree, a cypress if I'm not mistaken, that has a small fruit, like a little ball that falls to the ground after a few days.

I need a term that a six-year old would use to refer to such a tree.





[This KudoZ question is being posted by site staff using a test profile with the purpose of testing KudoZ notifications. However, proposed translations will be considered for a real translation project, so please feel free to participate by proposing a translation, references or by discussing the term in the discussion section. Thanks!]
Proposed translations (inglés)
2 +4 tree with the little balls
4 coquito tree
3 +1 the tree with the little coconuts / round cones
3 Shaving brush tree/amapolla tree (Pseudobombax ellipticum)
3 Acorn tree
References
Ref.
look at the Monterey cyprus

Discussion

Laura Finch (asker) Mar 8:
'acorn tree' may do the trick here, Andrew I would like to keep the natural tone of the text, that is, name a tree the way a kid would name it without focusing too much on the tree itself. I was even thinking of using "pine tree", it's simple, well-known and understood by most kids in most cultures. "tree with the little balls" is probably closer to the original and I liked it when I first saw patinbas' suggestion, but for some reason "little balls" sounds odd to me (does it sound odd to anyone else too?) The use of "coconuts" or "round cones" may give the same idea too. But they don't sound natural to me (maybe it's just me, maybe it's just the Friday effect).

Anyway, I investigated a bit around the use of 'acorn tree', specially in content created for children and I noticed that it is widely used for different audiences, including in a lot of material for children. There are short stories and videos for kids that use it without any further explanation or clarification, just as we use 'árbol de coquitos' in Spanish. So, free free to post it as an answer, Andrew. I haven't made up my mind yet, but I think 'acorn tree' deserves some thought over the weekend. Thanks again everyone!
Andrew Bramhall Mar 8:
@ALL I disagree with Laura Finch's comment at the outset that " to a 6 year old, a tree is just a tree"; not true at all; children quickly grasp the meaning of a tree, i.e, they wouldn't know that Quercius is oak, but they get it as an 'acorn tree', as they pick up and collect such things. Similarly, they wouldn't know Castanium as a horse chestnut, but would call it a conker tree, which kids play with and collect. Where a tree's fruit is edible, they call the tree what it is, i.e, apple tree, pear tree, etc.
philgoddard Mar 6:
Yes! I hadn't thought, until patinba pointed it out, that it's coquitos and not coquito.
Toni Castano Mar 6:
@All I agree with phil that the asker herself does not know exactly what type of tree is being referred here to (“it refers to a type of pine tree, a cypress if I'm not mistaken”). So she is assuming that she could be mistaken. In view of this situation, we cannot know what is actually meant by “árbol de coquitos”. Nobody can know.
However, a clear indisputable fact is that the asker is requiring a rendering a six-year old child would use (“I need a term that a six-year old would use to refer to such a tree.”). This point is not debatable, in my view.
Phil, shall we finally reconcile ourselves to this non-debatable point?
philgoddard Mar 6:
Just a reminder 1. The asker thinks it's a conifer, but admits they could be wrong. It could be a palm, or the broadleaf (ie non-coniferous) pseudobombax suggested by Toni, or something else.

2. We still don't know the relevance of the six-year-old child. It could be Ulises' age, but he's not telling the story, so we don't need to use baby language. And if it's written for six-year-olds, they might well enjoy an exotic and unfamiliar word like 'coquito'.

Instead of guessing, I think there's nothing wrong with keeping the Spanish. This is a story, possibly for children, who have no interest in the finer points of botanical classification.
patinba Mar 5:
Cypress or liquidamber I have both a liquidambar (deciduous) and a cypress in my garden and they both shed what are colloquially known locally as "coquitos". In the case of the liquidambar, wikipedia tells me: "Fallen, opened fruits are often abundant beneath the trees; these have been popularly nicknamed "burr (or bir) balls", "gum balls", "space bugs", "sticker balls","spike balls", or "monkey balls" which would justify the child calling them "balls". They also tend to cover the ground more profusely than cypress cones. A Spanish reference: "diy guirnalda de coquitos liquidambar" Pinterest - España https://www.pinterest.es › ·
guirnaldas de los coquitos del liquidambar. hacer una guirnalda para navidad para árbol con frutos (coquitos ) liquidambar. una guirnalda rústica , simple ...
neilmac Mar 5:
Tree in the photo ... is a cypress. I have quite a few in my garden. "Coquitos" can be Brazil nuts, but that's from a S. American tree.
Laura Finch (asker) Mar 5:
Some answers 1. How do you know it's a pine/cypress (those are two different genuses), and not the palm suggested by Taña?
I guess it could be the palm. I mentioned the pine/cypress because that's how I've known it as since I was a child.

2. Where do the pictures come from, and how are they captioned?
Pictures come from the web. I included them as examples of what "coquitos" and "árbol de coquitos" may refer to.

3. Do you want to maintain the local colour, in which case you should leave it in Spanish, or find a more generic substitute?
I'd like a generic substitute.

4. Why a six-year-old? The sentence is written in adult language, and to most children of that age, a tree is just a tree.
I like your view. "to most children of that age, a tree is just a tree". I think you have given me something there.

Thanks philgoddard!
philgoddard Mar 5:
Some questions 1. How do you know it's a pine/cypress (those are two different genuses), and not the palm suggested by Taña?

2. Where do the pictures come from, and how are they captioned?

3. Do you want to maintain the local colour, in which case you should leave it in Spanish, or find a more generic substitute?

4. Why a six-year-old? The sentence is written in adult language, and to most children of that age, a tree is just a tree.

Proposed translations

+4
3 horas
Selected

tree with the little balls

A six-year old is unlikely to get much more descriptive than that. The text is in line with what you would find in a childrens' book, and cypress tree fruits are round although they are still known as cones, as I have just discovered.

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Note added at 11 horas (2024-03-06 01:24:47 GMT)
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Except that Laura is in Argentina, and I think that these are probably liquidambar "coquitos" that litter my pavement/sidewalk almost all year round.
Peer comment(s):
agree liz askew
19 minutos
Thank you!
neutral philgoddard : I don't think 'balls' will immediately conjure up a picture of seed cones, and it's also a double entendre. I don't see any reason not to say the name of the tree, eg palm, pine, cypress.
30 minutos
"pine tree etc" possibly, but "coquito" is a child's diminutive,
agree neilmac : And "arbol con bolitas" gets over 11,000 hits....
1 hora
Thank you!
agree Toni Castano : An interesting approach, reasonable for a six-year child.
5 horas
Thank you, Toni!
agree ormiston : Maybe 'with those little ball things' would fit the register
23 horas
Thanks! But the words are not those of the child itself, when your proposal would be approrpiate perhaps.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
5 horas

coquito tree

We don't know whether this is a cypress, a pine, a palm, or something else, and there's no apparent way to find out.

It doesn't matter that 'coquito' doesn't convey a clear image in the reader's mind. They'll just assume it's some local species.

The Spanish doesn't say 'tree with little balls', it says the name of a tree. I think we should respect that, and not overtranslate.

Peer comment(s):
disagree Adrian MM. : You may not have realis/zed the double-entendre clanger yourself, but there arre some Spanish-speaking countries where, colloquially, that 'translation' would mean a 'little-cock of a tree'.
1 hora
If you're going to automatically disagree with all my answers, it would be really helpful if you could explain why in plain, comprehensible English. Once again, I have no idea what you're talking about.
neutral liz askew : but the asker has provided a picture, same as my reference!
2 horas
We don't know that it's a cypress. The asker thinks it is, but he or she could be wrong, and agrees that it could be the palm suggested by Taña.
neutral Toni Castano : Hi phil. I think you´re going too far here. No English-speaking child woud spontaneously use an expression with a foreign word like “coquito”, probably totally unknown to them. // "I need a term that a six-year old would use to refer to such a tree".
3 horas
This is not a child talking! It's an adult writing about a child. // The asker hasn't explained why they need a term that a six-year-old would use. If it's a children's book aimed at that age range, there's no reason to avoid unfamiliar words.
neutral patinba : It doesn't say the name of the tree in the text . "El arbol DE coquitos" describes an aspect of it. If it were as you say, the Spanish would be "el arbol coquito"
6 horas
You're right, I hadn't thought of that.
agree Andrew Bramhall : Yet another ludicrous disagree by AMM, and agree with Phil's comments to TC and Patinba. AMM is confusing double entendre of Patinba's 'little balls' answer with male testicles.
2 días 16 horas
Something went wrong...
+1
5 horas

the tree with the little coconuts / round cones

To keep the naive tone of the original.

I also think that the second option could work because a kid may not see the oxymoron of calling them round cones because he may have learnt about pine cones but not necessarily about the shape itself.

Still, I'd go with the first one. I feel it reflects well how a kid might refer to that.
Peer comment(s):
neutral liz askew : it has nothing to do with coconuts!:)
2 horas
I know! But it's the vision of a child. In Spanish it's the same, and I imagine it has to do with the relation drawn from round and hard fruit, similar to a coconut. Just my take, though. :)
agree philgoddard : You could say 'little round things like coconuts", and I think 'round cones' is OK too.
19 horas
Thanks, Phil.
Something went wrong...
8 horas

Shaving brush tree/amapolla tree (Pseudobombax ellipticum)

Since common language is being used in your text (“árbol de coquitos” is certainly no scientific term, it is just a common noun, not necessarily children´s jargon) and also being asked for (“I need a term that a six-year old would use to refer to such a tree”), I am suggesting something that might perhaps fit your needs.
Problem 1. Yes, “árbol de coquitos” is children´s speak, but not only. This term is also used by adults, and my first problem is that I am not sure about what kind of tree is actually being referred here to, hence my just middle confidence level. I believe the “árbol de coquitos” might be the “Pseudobombax ellipticum”, scientific name, but, very important, I am not sure.
Problem 2. If I am right, and the “Pseudobombax ellipticum” is the right scientific term for the mysterious tree of your example, we then need to adapt this term to a language that might be comprehensible and used by a six-year old child, your requirement. The “Pseudobombax ellipticum” is commonly referred to as shaving brush tree, Dr Seuss tree, and also amapolla tree. I think both “shaving brush tree” and “amapolla tree” could be good options for a children´s book or text. Dr Seuss tree seems a bit more sophisticated to me, though.
A final note: In India, this tree is also known as Maharaja tree, as it can be seen in another reference below.

This is what the “Kids Encyclopaedia” tells us about this tree:
https://kids.kiddle.co/Pseudobombax_ellipticum
Pseudobombax ellipticum facts for kids
Kids Encyclopedia Facts
Quick facts for kids
Pseudobombax ellipticum
Scientific classification
Genus: Pseudobombax
Species: ellipticum
Pseudobombax ellipticum, with common names including shaving brush tree, Dr Seuss tree, and amapolla tree, is a species of plant in the subfamily Bombacoideae of the family Malvaceae.

https://frankcoronado.com/arboles-de-oaxaca/
Árboles de Oaxaca que debes conocer
(…)
4. Coquito
El nombre científico de este árbol es Pseudobombax ellipticum y a estos árboles de Oaxaca se le conoce como Coquito, Guié’ tiki en el Istmo, Itayata en la Mixteca. Su nombre en náhuatl es Xiloxóchitl, compuesto de Xilotl, maíz y xochitl, flor «Flor de Maíz». En otras ciudades se le conoce como Clavelina, Cabellos de ángel, Cocuche, Mocoque, Guiétiqui , Itayata o Flor de lele.
Este árbol es originario desde el sur de México hasta El Salvador y Honduras. Hay dos variantes de color de flor, rosa y blanco.

These are usual common terms in some other Latin American countries:
https://colombia.inaturalist.org/taxa/201454-Pseudobombax-el...
Coquito Pseudobombax ellipticum
(…)
Nombres comunes
coquito, clavellina, cabellos de ángel, cocuche, mocoque, guietiqui, itayata; amapola (Guatemala)
Guie' tuiquii, chilochuchi, pochotle, xiloxochitl, itayata, flor de Sospó, Lele (México)
Carolina (República Dominicana).

https://bangaloremirror.indiatimes.com/opinion/you/the-mahar...
The Maharaja Tree (Pseudobombax ellipticum).

Again: Middle confidence level due to the uncertainty the source brings about in me.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Andrew Bramhall : Interesting that you think 6 year olds would even know what a shaving brush is, let alone perform the mental gymnastics to convert the concept into the name of a tree due to their physical similarities.But you're right to be suspicious of the source text.
2 días 13 horas
Something went wrong...
3 días 8 horas

Acorn tree

Obviously not a tree per se, but to a young child, trees are mostly understood by the fruits they produce, such as with acorns and conkers; obviously, oak trees " fruits" are acorns, used to feed the Iberian pigs which produce the famous " Bellota" ham from the black Iberian pig, and conkers are used as playthings on a string by children in playgrounds.
Although the tree in question isn't an oak tree, maybe in this context you could get away with calling it an " acorn tree", which does exist in the imagination of a child.
Posted as an answer at Laura's request.
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

55 minutos
Reference:

Ref.

Is the text from Chile?
“Baby coconuts” (aka coquito nuts, mini coconuts, coker nuts, pygmy coconuts, monkey's coconuts) aren't actually coconuts at all, but the fruit of an entirely different variety of palm tree from Chile.
https://www.marxfoods.com/Baby-Coconuts-Coquitos#:~:text=“Ba...

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Note added at 57 mins (2024-03-05 15:02:29 GMT)
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Do you need a name for the tree or the nuts that a six-year-old would understand?

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Note added at 1 hr (2024-03-05 15:05:07 GMT)
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coquito_nuts

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Note added at 2 hrs (2024-03-05 17:03:15 GMT)
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jubaea
Jubaea is a genus of palms with one species, Jubaea chilensis, commonly known in English as the Chilean wine palm or Chile cocopalm, and palma chilena in Spanish.

The leaves can be used to weave baskets, and it has edible seeds, widely eaten and known as Coquito nuts.
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree philgoddard
2 horas
Thanks.
neutral liz askew : These fruits don't tie in with the picture provided by the asker
2 horas
Firstly, the Asker did say tree; secondly, I asked for clarification of the source. Information was only posted later.
Something went wrong...
3 horas
Reference:

look at the Monterey cyprus

https://www.treeguideuk.co.uk/cypress-cones/

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Note added at 3 heures (2024-03-05 17:30:37 GMT)
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The cones have wavy margins between the scales and each scale has a slight ridge at its centre.
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