| Páginas sobre el tema: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Poll: Do you have to be a believer in order to translate a religious text? Autor de la hebra: ProZ.com Staff
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| Stranger than paradise | May 26, 2021 |
I am a human (translator), nothing human is strange to me.
And that's the ungodly truth.
| | | | LIZ LI 
China
Local time: 09:36
francés al chino
+ ...
1. Supposing that the end client doesn't confirm the assigment with the agency and would love to look into the profile(s) of the selected translator or the pool, which one(s) would the agency show to the client, believer or non-believer?
2. What will it be if we ask a Christian to translate a book about buddism? Or a Buddhist for christianity?
Keyword: subjectivity.
Anaïs Duval wrote:
Just like any other field, there is simply a terminology to respect, then just put your belief or non-belief aside if necessary and translate.
And I'll have to disagree with Anaïs, as there are way too many things we're NOT able to put aside.
[Edited at 2021-05-27 02:08 GMT]
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That is so before common era...
| | | | Paul Lambert
Suecia
Local time: 03:36
Miembro 2006
sueco al inglés
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| No, and even being a believer does not make one good at translating religious texts. | May 27, 2021 |
And it is not about religion in particular. I am sure many of us translate texts about topics in which we are not personally involved. It may take some extra terminological research, but one does not need personally to have a stake.
This works the other way too, i.e., not every believer makes for a good translator of religious topics. Someone who grew up going to a Presbyterian Sunday school might not immediately know how to translate "Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament", "Synoptic ... See more And it is not about religion in particular. I am sure many of us translate texts about topics in which we are not personally involved. It may take some extra terminological research, but one does not need personally to have a stake.
This works the other way too, i.e., not every believer makes for a good translator of religious topics. Someone who grew up going to a Presbyterian Sunday school might not immediately know how to translate "Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament", "Synoptic Question", "Deuterocanonical Texts" or "concupiscence".
Never mind just those - consider the different names for Christian holidays on the calendar from one language to another. Both believer and non-believer alike would probably need, at least once, to look up names for "Ascension Day", "Whitsun", "Pentecost", "Holy Innocents Day" , "Maundy Thurdsay" - a direct translation seldom fits.
[Edited at 2021-05-27 04:39 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| Fit or unfit | May 27, 2021 |
LIZ LI wrote:
2. What will it be if we ask a Christian to translate a book about buddism? Or a Buddhist for christianity?
I know this is not quite the same thing, but over last winter I translated a novel*, a crime thriller set in Berlin, written by a Greek woman.
Now I am not Greek, nor female, nor a criminal for that matter, and my knowledge of Berlin is very limited, so you might say I was totally unqualified to take on this translation.
Yet oddly enough, the author seems quite happy with the result.
*Note: although I translate mainly technical texts, I do have some background in writing fiction, so this was not as big a departure as it might seem.
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
España
Local time: 03:36
español al inglés
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You might like to reveal the title, if you can, because I'll watch out for your version. In my youth I read every single whodunnit Agatha Christie ever writed*, and I was partial to a bit of P.D. James too, although it's not the same these days, because the novels don't have the manservants and butlers and the Oxford marmalade on the sideboard any more, and it's usually much more violent, but still. And I'm sure, as the author says, that you translated it beautifully.
*Throwback to ... See more You might like to reveal the title, if you can, because I'll watch out for your version. In my youth I read every single whodunnit Agatha Christie ever writed*, and I was partial to a bit of P.D. James too, although it's not the same these days, because the novels don't have the manservants and butlers and the Oxford marmalade on the sideboard any more, and it's usually much more violent, but still. And I'm sure, as the author says, that you translated it beautifully.
*Throwback to a post long ago, for ... well, you know who you are.
[Edited at 2021-05-27 06:06 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | P.L.F. Persio
Países Bajos
Local time: 03:36
Miembro 2010
inglés al italiano
+ ...
Mervyn Henderson wrote:
You might like to reveal the title, if you can, because I'll watch out for your version. In my youth I read every single whodunnit Agatha Christie ever writed*, and I was partial to a bit of P.D. James too, although it's not the same these days, because the novels don't have the manservants and butlers and the Oxford marmalade on the sideboard any more, and it's usually much more violent, but still. And I'm sure, as the author says, that you translated it beautifully.
*Throwback to a post long ago, for ... well, you know who you are.
[Edited at 2021-05-27 06:06 GMT]
| | | | Samuel Murray
Países Bajos
Local time: 03:36
Miembro 2006
inglés al afrikaans
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| Related issues | May 27, 2021 |
LIZ LI wrote:
Supposing that the end client doesn't confirm the assigment with the agency and would love to look into the profile(s) of the selected translator or the pool, which one(s) would the agency show to the client, believer or non-believer?
This is a related issue, yes: I suspect most clients who are believers or adherents of the faith of their religious source material would prefer the translation to be undertaken by a fellow-believer. This is where client education comes in: clients (and the public) have certain assumptions and superstitions about what makes a good translator, and this isn't always borne out. You know, like the idea that only a black translator can make an effective translation of a poem about black slavery, or only a translator who was suffered sexual violence can correctly translate a text about rape.
What is true, though, is that a translator should ask himself whether his own beliefs may interfere with the translation of a text that advances a different faith. I'm not talking about translators who are mere adherents to faiths that they grew up with, but who are firm believers of their religion. A translator for whom e.g. Christianity and the beliefs of Christianity are absolute truths and non-negotiable moral values may have trouble translating a text that promotes e.g. Satanism in a way that is fair to the client. The principle here is part of normal translator ethics: don't translate something that you are unable to translate well, especially if your inability is due to a clash between your own beliefs and that of the text.
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Tony Keily
Local time: 03:36
italiano al inglés
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| Strange question | May 27, 2021 |
Why would this be a requirement? I mean, you can translate a business contract without being a capitalist. I translate petitions to the European Parliament that reflect all kinds of beliefs, some quite off-the-wall, but don't feel I need to empathise with the petitioner.
I'm a non-believer (atheist always sounds a bit too vocational) but studied religion, among other things, at university.
I was trying to work in a joke about "faithful" translation, but it's too early... See more Why would this be a requirement? I mean, you can translate a business contract without being a capitalist. I translate petitions to the European Parliament that reflect all kinds of beliefs, some quite off-the-wall, but don't feel I need to empathise with the petitioner.
I'm a non-believer (atheist always sounds a bit too vocational) but studied religion, among other things, at university.
I was trying to work in a joke about "faithful" translation, but it's too early in the day. ▲ Collapse
| | | | P.L.F. Persio
Países Bajos
Local time: 03:36
Miembro 2010
inglés al italiano
+ ...
| The day's still young ... | May 27, 2021 |
Anthony John Keily wrote:
I was trying to work in a joke about "faithful" translation, but it's too early in the day.
... but we've got faith in you.
| | | | | Watch this space | May 27, 2021 |
Mervyn Henderson wrote:
You might like to reveal the title, if you can, because I'll watch out for your version.
Thank you Mervyn (and Porzia) for the support. If and when the book is eventually published I'll let you know. The author has published several novels in Greek and has a readership, but this English version is a new venture.
Like you, I have a hankering for the "cosy" whodunits of yesteryear.
Getting back to the original topic, I agree with other posters that it makes a difference whether the text is purely factual and descriptive, or whether it's aimed at advocacy. In the latter case I think it would be better handled by a translator who shares the beliefs that are to be promulgated. Promoting a case one doesn't believe in is hard to do convincingly and wholeheartedly.
| | | | P.L.F. Persio
Países Bajos
Local time: 03:36
Miembro 2010
inglés al italiano
+ ...
Samuel Murray wrote:
This is a related issue, yes: I suspect most clients who are believers or adherents of the faith of their religious source material would prefer the translation to be undertaken by a fellow-believer. This is where client education comes in: clients (and the public) have certain assumptions and superstitions about what makes a good translator, and this isn't always borne out. You know, like the idea that only a black translator can make an effective translation of a poem about black slavery, or only a translator who was suffered sexual violence can correctly translate a text about rape.
What is true, though, is that a translator should ask himself whether his own beliefs may interfere with the translation of a text that advances a different faith. I'm not talking about translators who are mere adherents to faiths that they grew up with, but who are firm believers of their religion. A translator for whom e.g. Christianity and the beliefs of Christianity are absolute truths and non-negotiable moral values may have trouble translating a text that promotes e.g. Satanism in a way that is fair to the client. The principle here is part of normal translator ethics: don't translate something that you are unable to translate well, especially if your inability is due to a clash between your own beliefs and that of the text.
Before I embarked on their religious project, I warned the client I was an atheist, and asked them if it was a problem for them. They were very kind and replied than no, it was not, in fact, I could refuse any text that could make me feel uncomfortable. But nothing made me uncomfortable; if anything, I felt a pang of jealousy for believers, every time I started a new text.
Even though I don't think that faith makes your life easier, it probably lightens your burden, and makes you sure that you're always unconditionally loved, whatever you do, whenever you fail.
@Philip: I hear you but, even though I don't share the belief in an afterlife, I do share most of the Christian values. Those texts were aimed at advocacy, yet they didn't read like a sort of crusade. They showed how the Gospels can give you an answer to the challenges of life.
Of course, you have to be open, and leave your scepticism out of it; in the end, it's a matter of mutual respect.
[Edited at 2021-05-27 08:48 GMT]
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Mervyn Henderson (X)
España
Local time: 03:36
español al inglés
+ ...
Samuel has broached something I was thinking about, although I was thinking about it the other way round, a Satanist translator in a heavy-metal T-shirt translating with black candles burning all around. It might be more than galling for a committed believer to translate all that naked dancing around bonfires, or for Mr Metallica to tap out something about John the Baptist up to his waist in the River Jordan.
But, as I said above, you have to wear the author's hat in the end, otherw... See more Samuel has broached something I was thinking about, although I was thinking about it the other way round, a Satanist translator in a heavy-metal T-shirt translating with black candles burning all around. It might be more than galling for a committed believer to translate all that naked dancing around bonfires, or for Mr Metallica to tap out something about John the Baptist up to his waist in the River Jordan.
But, as I said above, you have to wear the author's hat in the end, otherwise what's the point? As Baran's "Cross + Islam" comment on the Anthony Hopkins film shows, some translators just can't bring themselves to put on that hat. But they should, otherwise people watching the film, like him, will think "Er, what? ..."
[Edited at 2021-05-27 09:04 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
Reino Unido
Local time: 02:36
Miembro 2008
italiano al inglés
| What I believe | May 27, 2021 |
Regular backup is one of the Buddha's Threefold Paths to Enlightenment.
| | | | | True knowledge vs feigned knowledge | May 27, 2021 |
It will certainly take exceptional skill to pretend you know how to write about religious things. I wonder if it is possible for an atheist mind to develop a strong command of just the language part of any religion (while remaining in denial of its substance). Maybe this can be accomplished through massive amounts of reading, but why would an atheist embark on such reading in the first place? Leo Tolstoy was raised in an environment that gave him a good command of religious discourse, and part o... See more It will certainly take exceptional skill to pretend you know how to write about religious things. I wonder if it is possible for an atheist mind to develop a strong command of just the language part of any religion (while remaining in denial of its substance). Maybe this can be accomplished through massive amounts of reading, but why would an atheist embark on such reading in the first place? Leo Tolstoy was raised in an environment that gave him a good command of religious discourse, and part of what he wrote about religious matters was pretty authentic indeed, though his own system of beliefs is a pain to wade through (IMHO); he had no "organ through which to believe," as another writer put it. My opinion is that a non-believer who takes on projects that have to do with religion will communicate (intentionally or otherwise) their look-down attitude towards the things they write about (this attitude is almost always there, though many prefer to deny it). A real pro might be able to feign a respectful tone, but again, why would they? Just because it is paid work? I used to read antireligious literature before, just to find out what they had to say (I myself having been raised in a non-religious environment), but the language they used always seemed insipid and sterile to me. On the other hand, if the tranlator is a religious fanatic, this will also stand in the way of them delivering good translations, especially if the work to be translated deals with other religions. To sum things up, translating any no-nonsense work on religion (I'm not talking about cults, let their own members do translations for them) is not an ordinary task, the translator should know how to capture the unique flavor of religious vernacular. I know, atheists will say there is no such flavor, it doesn't matter if you're writing about a machine or about the path of Parinirvana ▲ Collapse
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