Poll: An NDA with high fine for each potential violation written out only for the translator... Autor de la hebra: ProZ.com Staff
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This forum topic is for the discussion of the poll question "An NDA with high fine for each potential violation written out only for the translator...".
This poll was originally submitted by Ekaterina Chashnikova. View the poll results »
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Bélgica
Local time: 01:26
Miembro 2020
francés al neerlandés
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I wonder how many freelance translators have ever been sued over a breach of confidentiality. I can't imagine it has happened a lot. I think most translators are wise enough not to share deliberately confidential content. Being hacked could be a risk, but there's little to do about that, apart from the well-known security measures every freelancer with a right mind surely takes.
Most of my customers don't or only rarely use NDA's and if they do, I don't really care about the penalti... See more I wonder how many freelance translators have ever been sued over a breach of confidentiality. I can't imagine it has happened a lot. I think most translators are wise enough not to share deliberately confidential content. Being hacked could be a risk, but there's little to do about that, apart from the well-known security measures every freelancer with a right mind surely takes.
Most of my customers don't or only rarely use NDA's and if they do, I don't really care about the penalties that are in it. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I miss the option "is completely over the top" | Jan 10 |
Agencies that try to impose such conditions on their freelancers don't regard us as equal business partners.
I certainly don't sign this stuff. I used to propose changes to the NDA if I spotted something like this but I've stopped bothering because it's just a waste of time.
| | | | | I also miss the option "is completely over the top" | Jan 10 |
I can’t remember ever receiving a NDA containing such stipulation. Anyway, I wouldn’t sign it…
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| Don´t sign that kind of NDA | Jan 10 |
I have translated plenty of terms and conditions for large companies trading with other large companies, and in that kind of transaction they practically ALWAYS limit the penalties to direct consequences, replacing the damaged or defect goods, and specific items such as transport.
There is no compensation for indirect loss, third-party loss or damage, or anything else down the line.
How these clients imagine that a sole trader or a small business like a freelance translator ha... See more I have translated plenty of terms and conditions for large companies trading with other large companies, and in that kind of transaction they practically ALWAYS limit the penalties to direct consequences, replacing the damaged or defect goods, and specific items such as transport.
There is no compensation for indirect loss, third-party loss or damage, or anything else down the line.
How these clients imagine that a sole trader or a small business like a freelance translator has assets to cover that kind of thing beats me. Even with insurance cover! Talk to your insurer if there is any doubt about what precisely your policy covers, but think about it at least.
OK, it will probably never happen, but I take these threats seriously. If it is never going to happen, why write ten pages of legalese about it and waste everybody's time?
Many good clients send out a page or two clarifying that they send confidential material out from time to time, and that the translator must treat it as such. Translators agree that of course, they have security in place, and will protect confidential material. Both sign, end of story.
I have once or twice persuaded a client to alter the terms of their NDA, and I have agreed with another that as I don't have any employees, I could ignore the rigmarole about who was responsible for my employees´ misdemeanours and how they might affect the client's customers etc. etc. etc.
In general I am wary of these paper tigers. I do not like signing agreements that cannot be enforced. But on the other hand, the more paperwork involved in a client´s so-called onboarding process, the less likely they are to send any work, so it probably does not make any big difference. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | NDAs of this type seemed to be in vogue last year | Jan 10 |
We had to decline two business relationships, with agencies whose fields for translation matched our own rather well. One of them proposed a penalty of EUR 5,000.00, and the other one a penalty of EUR 25,000.00, for breaching confidentiality. I had correspondence with the owner or CEO of one of them, who expressed an opinion that translators, as a breed, would not take confidentiality seriously without committing to pay such an amount - and suggested, for example, that we might want to breach co... See more We had to decline two business relationships, with agencies whose fields for translation matched our own rather well. One of them proposed a penalty of EUR 5,000.00, and the other one a penalty of EUR 25,000.00, for breaching confidentiality. I had correspondence with the owner or CEO of one of them, who expressed an opinion that translators, as a breed, would not take confidentiality seriously without committing to pay such an amount - and suggested, for example, that we might want to breach confidentiality in order to market our services. I wonder why it never occurs to such agencies that, as professionals, we behave professionally. No-one ever suggests that a lawyer or a tax adviser might breach confidentiality, and I have many times translated the sentence that certain information was not supposed to be disclosed to anyone except the lawyer or tax adviser, based on their professional obligation to respect confidentiality. Why should anyone think that language professionals are different? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | That's AI not humans | Jan 10 |
Astrid Elke Witte wrote:
We had to decline two business relationships, with agencies whose fields for translation matched our own rather well. One of them proposed a penalty of EUR 5,000.00, and the other one a penalty of EUR 25,000.00, for breaching confidentiality. I had correspondence with the owner or CEO of one of them, who expressed an opinion that translators, as a breed, would not take confidentiality seriously without committing to pay such an amount - and suggested, for example, that we might want to breach confidentiality in order to market our services. I wonder why it never occurs to such agencies that, as professionals, we behave professionally. No-one ever suggests that a lawyer or a tax adviser might breach confidentiality, and I have many times translated the sentence that certain information was not supposed to be disclosed to anyone except the lawyer or tax adviser, based on their professional obligation to respect confidentiality. Why should anyone think that language professionals are different?
It seems to me that this CEO has mistaken professional human translation with machine translation AI.
| | | | Daryo
Reino Unido
Local time: 00:26
serbio al inglés
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| The devil is in the details | Jan 10 |
You do get occasionally translators or interpreters with a very cavalier attitude to confidentiality, so it may look like it makes sense to include indemnities for breaches of confidentiality in a NDA.
In practical terms it's not worth much - once a leak has occurred it's to late to plug it, and most individual translators are simply not worth suing (unless they brag about being 'fully insured').
The biggest issue is the burden of proof – if the wording is such that a... See more You do get occasionally translators or interpreters with a very cavalier attitude to confidentiality, so it may look like it makes sense to include indemnities for breaches of confidentiality in a NDA.
In practical terms it's not worth much - once a leak has occurred it's to late to plug it, and most individual translators are simply not worth suing (unless they brag about being 'fully insured').
The biggest issue is the burden of proof – if the wording is such that a leak by some careless or incompetent agency’s employee could easily be imputed to the translator, then signing such NDA because 'it’s only an NDA' is the last thing you would ever want to do.
Such things as agencies trying to shift the blame could never happen? Just think of how often, when the end client complained about some poor quality translation, the agency was very quick to blame the translator, and then it turned out that the culprit was in fact some incompetent ‘editor'.
In short: although at first sight it might seem reasonable, it’s only one more of the clauses added to NDAs by lawyers to justify their fees and to offload on translators as much as possible the responsibility for anything that could go wrong.
The only real remedy is prevention - agencies doing their job and selecting competent and trustworthy translators, instead of piling up as much unrealistic punitive clauses they could think of.
[Edited at 2025-01-11 03:52 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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WolfgangS
Francia
Local time: 01:26
Miembro 2007
inglés al alemán
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Astrid Elke Witte wrote:
No-one ever suggests that a lawyer or a tax adviser might breach confidentiality, and I have many times translated the sentence that certain information was not supposed to be disclosed to anyone except the lawyer or tax adviser, based on their professional obligation to respect confidentiality. Why should anyone think that language professionals are different?
Because for many (outsiders) "translator" is not a profession, it's that you just "happen" to speak one or more other languages and therefore you're not a professional (with rules and obligations) but a simple "opportunist".
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Astrid Elke Witte wrote:
No-one ever suggests that a lawyer or a tax adviser might breach confidentiality
Not sure about that. NDAs are quite common in legal/financial matters and many others. Lawyers have lost their contracts due to NDA breaches, a quite famous case was when a lawyer's son boasted about a lucrative contract on Facebook, which resulted in contract nullification. The fact that normally you don't ask your lawyer to sign an NDA is because NDAs are usually issued by companies, not individuals.
| | | | | There are different types of NDAs | Jan 12 |
An NDA of some kind is very common between clients and translators, but there is a big difference between the short, polite reminder that material for translation must be treated as confidential - and the client assumes that it is purely a formality between professionals - and the long lists of fines and potential penalties that some agencies seem to conisder necessary.
If the client has selected a professional translator, they can assume that he/she has signed a code of conduct as ... See more An NDA of some kind is very common between clients and translators, but there is a big difference between the short, polite reminder that material for translation must be treated as confidential - and the client assumes that it is purely a formality between professionals - and the long lists of fines and potential penalties that some agencies seem to conisder necessary.
If the client has selected a professional translator, they can assume that he/she has signed a code of conduct as a member of a professional body.
I would be outraged if a potential client said they assumed that ... translators, as a breed, would not take confidentiality seriously without committing to pay such an amount - and suggested, for example, that we might want to breach confidentiality in order to market our services.
Really? I would absolutely not want to work with them. I would not be allowed to give them a zero rating on the Blue Board, if I had not worked for them already, but it would be a reason for a negative rating on the ´Yellow Board´ I proposed a few weeks ago, if it ever came into existence.
https://www.proz.com/forum/business_issues/370694-could_we_have_a_yellow_board_for_rating_time_waster_agencies-page2.html ▲ Collapse
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