| Páginas sobre el tema: [1 2] > | Changing bold to normal font - crossed out "B" not visible Autor de la hebra: Carolin Haase
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Hi,
does anyone know how to undo words in bold when the crossed out B is not visible in Studio 2011? Googling didn't help.
I am working in a normal word doc.
TIA!
Carolin
| | | | Emma Goldsmith 
España
Local time: 08:41
Miembro 2004
español al inglés
| | Best thing is to work with tags... | Oct 9, 2013 |
... displayed if you are not already and then this is easier to see. But in 2011 some changes were made that moved these to another part of the menu. There is an article here that explains how to work with them here: http://wp.me/p2xDjK-gl
It may also be worth reviewing this article on working with ta... See more ... displayed if you are not already and then this is easier to see. But in 2011 some changes were made that moved these to another part of the menu. There is an article here that explains how to work with them here: http://wp.me/p2xDjK-gl
It may also be worth reviewing this article on working with tags in Studio in general: http://wp.me/p2xDjK-9I
Studio 2014 makes this easier to understand with the use of a big clear formatting button for all formatting applied.
Regards
Paul ▲ Collapse
| | | | Carolin Haase
Alemania
Local time: 08:41
inglés al alemán
+ ...
PERSONA QUE INICIÓ LA HEBRA
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| the same has happened to me | Oct 9, 2013 |
and to be honest, I don't see what's wrong (or so difficult) about applying the normal Word shortcuts to Trados. It really can't get easier than ctrl+B for bold on/off and the same for italics and underline. I really can't be bothered to read a whole article about how to work with tags just to take the bold off a word. I'm sorry. It's easier just to copy and paste text that isn't bold and then type over it (even if this is a workaround).
If someone at SDL is listening, your softwar... See more and to be honest, I don't see what's wrong (or so difficult) about applying the normal Word shortcuts to Trados. It really can't get easier than ctrl+B for bold on/off and the same for italics and underline. I really can't be bothered to read a whole article about how to work with tags just to take the bold off a word. I'm sorry. It's easier just to copy and paste text that isn't bold and then type over it (even if this is a workaround).
If someone at SDL is listening, your software would be far more user-friendly if we didn't have to read a manual or a whole load of forum questions every time we wanted to do something or wade through swathes of gobbledygook to try and figure out something as simple as how to remove the bold from a word.
You have a bold button already so why can't you make the same button put bold on or off? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Emma Goldsmith
España
Local time: 08:41
Miembro 2004
español al inglés
| User friendliness | Oct 9, 2013 |
Marie-Helene Dubois wrote:
what's wrong (or so difficult) about applying the normal Word shortcuts to Trados.
In general, Studio does apply normal Word shortcuts:
Ctrl+S (save)
Ctrl+C/V/X (copy/paste/cut)
Ctrl+B/U/I (bold/underline/italics)
Ctrl+F/H (find/replace)
Ctrl+A (select all)
Shift+F3 (toggle lowercase, uppercase and initial capitals in selected words)
Ctrl+Shift+8 (show whitespaces)
Ctrl+Start/End (go to start/end of file)
Ctrl+arrows (move one word left/right)
Ctrl+Z/Y (undo/redo last action)
Ctrl+Del to delete the entire next word instead of a character
Ctrl+Backspace to do the same only with the previous word.
Ctrl+Right/Left Arrow to jump to the beginning of the next/previous word
F7 (spellcheck)
F1 (help)
Ctrl+spacebar (good one for this post: clear formatting)
I could go on...
It really can't get easier than ctrl+B for bold on/off and the same for italics and underline.
Well, if you work with visible tags it can indeed get easier: Click Ctrl+B and type your text in between the tags.
I really can't be bothered to read a whole article about how to work with tags just to take the bold off a word.
Reading whole articles (even when I'm stressed and searching for a solution for a problem) is how I learn more about Studio and other software.
You have a bold button already so why can't you make the same button put bold on or off?
That's exactly what it does. (See 2nd comment above). The problem is when you don't display the tags and work in a WYSIWYG environment. I'd really recommend avoiding that, because that's where so many tag and spacing errors come from.
My preferred display is visible formatting, tags and white spaces. That way I'm completely in charge.
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Emma Goldsmith wrote:
I really can't be bothered to read a whole article about how to work with tags just to take the bold off a word.
Reading whole articles (even when I'm stressed and searching for a solution for a problem) is how I learn more about Studio and other software.
You have a bold button already so why can't you make the same button put bold on or off?
That's exactly what it does. (See 2nd comment above). The problem is when you don't display the tags and work in a WYSIWYG environment. I'd really recommend avoiding that, because that's where so many tag and spacing errors come from.
Thanks Emma for your feedback. However, none of the Word shortcuts work in my case. If they did, I wouldn't have said they didn't and indeed, I wouldn't have any gripes relating to shortcuts.
Sometimes reading articles is justified and sometimes it really isn't. Sometimes, what is justified is just being able to click ctrl+b to apply or take off bold and carry on with your work. I have no idea why my "bold off" button has disappeared from Studio, nor do I care to be honest. I'd just like it to be there or for there to be another (preferably simpler) alternative for taking bold off. I don't intend ever to become a software developer or to lecture on software so I don't see the point of learning the mechanics behind it unless I'm researching terminology for a translation.
Companies and individuals spend a lot of money on this software and I don't expect to have to spend more time learning about it or finding workarounds than the time it saves me.
| | | | Emma Goldsmith
España
Local time: 08:41
Miembro 2004
español al inglés
Sorry for using shorthand. WYSIWYG means "what you see is what you get" and it's supposed to be a user-friendly way of viewing your text in a sort of print preview, without any tags.
What I'm suggesting is the opposite: displaying tags so that you can see where exactly they open and close. Formatting tags are usually paired, which is why there is an open bold tag and a close bold tag even for writing in forums. So, to write
boldbold
I have to write this:
[b]bold[/b]
But I apologise, I realise you're not interested in this (still, I had fun discovering how to get that last bit to display properly!).
Regarding the time you spend learning how to use Studio and other programs, I find that the more I learn, the more productive I am with that software, so it's a win-win situation for me.
I think that Studio's move to a ribbon interface is great for people who want to find things more intuitively, like you, without having to spend too much time learning the ropes. So now, for example, instead of searching for a zoom button in Studio and turning to forums for the solution, there's a good chance that a user will look under the View Tab and spot "Font adaptation" with the letter icons over on the right.
That's the idea, anyway.
Have a great evening, Marie-Helene,
Best,
Emma ▲ Collapse
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Just a note on the display-all-tags-because-that's-how-you-are-supposed-to-work attitude. I kind of get it, but at the same time... really? Am I supposed to manually control bold tags? Is that the most efficient way to work?
And then... Ctrl-b switches bold on, but it doesn't switch it off? There is no way SDL can sell that to me as a reasonable and well-thought-out system. That's just broken,... See more Just a note on the display-all-tags-because-that's-how-you-are-supposed-to-work attitude. I kind of get it, but at the same time... really? Am I supposed to manually control bold tags? Is that the most efficient way to work?
And then... Ctrl-b switches bold on, but it doesn't switch it off? There is no way SDL can sell that to me as a reasonable and well-thought-out system. That's just broken, full stop. Hopefully they fixed it for T2004.
P.s. note that I'm a programmer of sorts. I have no problem writing perl code or making sense of the structure of TMX files or messing around with HTML etc. But I see no reason not to have wysiwyg for bold/italic/underline in a CAT. I'm totally with Marie-Helene on this one: bold/italic/underline should work out of the box, intuitively. If a competent, computer-savvy user needs to research how to do it because it's not obvious, then something is wrong with the software.
[Edited at 2013-10-09 19:02 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | It's not broken... | Oct 9, 2013 |
FarkasAndras wrote:
And then... Ctrl-b switches bold on, but it doesn't switch it off? There is no way SDL can sell that to me as a reasonable and well-thought-out system. That's just broken, full stop. Hopefully they fixed it for T2004.
... Trados and then Studio always worked with a Bold On/Bold Off concept. It never worked like a word processor, rather it tried to provide a consistent mechanism for handling tags irrespective of the files you are using.
In 2011 the "off" icons were moved into a menu and this caused some confusion. However, it also raised awareness of the ability to use ctrl+space as a means to clearing formatting as you worked.
2014 takes this a step further and makes this clear formatting more visible.
So you can work in wysiwyg if you really want to, and the video here shows how this can work in 2011 (would be the same in 2014) using only shortcuts: http://wp.me/p2xDjK-gl
Having said this, I can see how anyone who worked in Word would like to be able to simply use ctrl+b, or ctrl+I for example, and then press them again to turn it off. It's only a slight difference as now you use Ctrl+space for all formatting to turn it off. But I can see this. We have also discussed this internally before and despite what you all think it simply is not that straightforward... otherwise we would have done it. The fact another tool manages this does not imply we can too... at least not without some changes elsewhere in the system that are fairly significant.
This change may come, but when it does it will be accompanied by some wider ranging changes to accomplish it.
But really... how hard is Ctrl+b followed by Ctrl+space?
Regards
Paul
| | | | | thanks for your "support" | Oct 10, 2013 |
SDL Support wrote:
The fact another tool manages this does not imply we can too... at least not without some changes elsewhere in the system that are fairly significant.
But really... how hard is Ctrl+b followed by Ctrl+space?
Regards
Paul
but I think that on balance, I shall mostly be using software that does manage to be user-friendly and that has a support team that doesn't ask facetious questions.
| | | | Carolin Haase
Alemania
Local time: 08:41
inglés al alemán
+ ...
PERSONA QUE INICIÓ LA HEBRA | Well, to some, hard! | Oct 10, 2013 |
But really... how hard is Ctrl+b followed by Ctrl+space?
Imagine, I didn't even think of that. I just thought, oops, where has it gone?
There is some truth in all of the above, but as I can only speak for myself I think it's quite a strain having to ask in a forum how to solve a problem, and not finding any information aboiut this on SDL's website.
Not everyone is familar with shortcuts and whatnot in relation to a CAT tool, and I still don't get the thing about quick insert and working with tags - I always work with tags (I suppose) ; just open the doc and then start.
Perhaps I am a complete non-geek, but I don't mind.
In short, I am not very keen on spending my time exploring my CAT tool in depth; I simply want to use it to get my work done, and considering it costs a bit of money I think it can be expected to receive quick help and not being asked to read a lengthy article and being told I am not working correctly.
I just don't have time for that.
But thank you anyway. I learned a thing or two.
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| You're right of course. | Oct 10, 2013 |
Carolin Haase wrote:
But really... how hard is Ctrl+b followed by Ctrl+space?
Imagine, I didn't even think of that. I just thought, oops, where has it gone?
There is some truth in all of the above, but as I can only speak for myself I think it's quite a strain having to ask in a forum how to solve a problem, and not finding any information about this on SDL's website.
Hi Carolin,
I won't disagree with you, although I don't think I said you don't work properly? I do think we could make this far easier for users who work with the same approach as you, and there are going to be many, but I also think the remove formatting approach does provide a more consistent way to work as this would be the same way to handle any type of tags you would enter in this way and not just bold, italic or underline.
I think Studio 2014 addresses this quite a bit as it's now far more clear that this option is available, and also that this is the way the software currently works.
But you're right... it really wasn't obvious for any user that the Bold works like this.
Regards
Paul
| | | | | on/off toggle | Oct 10, 2013 |
SDL Support wrote:
I can see how anyone who worked in Word would like to be able to simply use ctrl+b, or ctrl+I for example, and then press them again to turn it off. It's only a slight difference as now you use Ctrl+space for all formatting to turn it off.
Note that people who worked in Word includes... 100% of neophyte Trados users. Everyone is familiar with Word. And it's not just Word of course. The on/off toggle shortcuts for bold/italic/underline are pretty much universal. SDL would do well to adopt what is a de facto standard. Ctrl-space could be called a 'slight difference' from the standard, but 1) it's not the standard shortcut so the user needs to research it to find out about it and 2) it's arguably worse than the standard behaviour. If you have a paragraph with bold and underlined text scattered all over it and you want to remove the bold but not the underlining, Studio makes it kind of a pain.
| | | | | But this is not supposed to be an authoring tool | Oct 10, 2013 |
FarkasAndras wrote:
Note that people who worked in Word includes... 100% of neophyte Trados users. Everyone is familiar with Word. And it's not just Word of course. The on/off toggle shortcuts for bold/italic/underline are pretty much universal. SDL would do well to adopt what is a de facto standard. Ctrl-space could be called a 'slight difference' from the standard, but 1) it's not the standard shortcut so the user needs to research it to find out about it and 2) it's arguably worse than the standard behaviour. If you have a paragraph with bold and underlined text scattered all over it and you want to remove the bold but not the underlining, Studio makes it kind of a pain.
Hi Farkas,
I agree with you on the number of Trados users, as there are many, and even Wordfast users still working in Word. I don't think I agree with you on your example though because what we are trying to do here is provide a tool that allows a consistent approach to handling tags. Irrespective of whether they are bold, Italic or some customised XML tag pairs I think the general rule is to create a target translation that faithfully represents the formatting of the source. So if the source was littered with tags as you suggest then I think expecting Studio to work just like a word processor where you can highlight everything and press Ctrl+I to remove all the Italic formatting interspersed between the words and mixed with Bold and Underline is asking a little much especially as these same formatting controls will be different for each filetype.
But as I have said... I'm sure we can make this work in an easier way for users and we will do in time.
Regards
Paul
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