| Páginas sobre el tema: < [1 2 3] | Why are Indian translation companies so complicate? Autor de la hebra: Miguel Jimenez
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Miguel Jimenez 
Alemania
alemán al español
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PERSONA QUE INICIÓ LA HEBRA | Yiu are right, i never do it again also, and with very low fees India should close all their office | Jul 30, 2013 |
MariusV wrote:
After all recent "tendencies" in real practice with the agencies from India, I made for myself very simple rules on that issue:
1. Never ever ever work (again) for an agency from India.
2. Do not even waste time responding to their crazy proposals - they won't be able to pay your usual rate (if they pay at all).
3. Make no exceptions to Rule 1 and Rule 2.
| | | | | Indian agencies | Jul 30, 2013 |
It is not just Indian agencies- I have had appalling offers from Germany, Spain, etc. It seems once a translator starts work as an agency, it/he offers/accepts appalling rates. I had an offer from an Italian who had moved to the US and he oferred a rate of-listen to it- $0.008. Unbelievable. it was for a book, and the contract said I would share the royalties if book sells more than 10,000-1% shared among 3 translators, then if sales go up to more than 50,000, I would get a share of 5% shared wi... See more It is not just Indian agencies- I have had appalling offers from Germany, Spain, etc. It seems once a translator starts work as an agency, it/he offers/accepts appalling rates. I had an offer from an Italian who had moved to the US and he oferred a rate of-listen to it- $0.008. Unbelievable. it was for a book, and the contract said I would share the royalties if book sells more than 10,000-1% shared among 3 translators, then if sales go up to more than 50,000, I would get a share of 5% shared with 2 other translators.
I would like to do the translation of the book, but the rate is off-putting and there is no negotiation about the rate. So, it is not just in India that these exist, but in Europe and in the US too. ▲ Collapse
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Miguel Jimenez wrote:
I really don’t understand why Indian translation companies are so complicate.
Cultural factors. Your culture and theirs are different. The interaction will reflect the differences.
Now I have three year working with several Indian companies in very low fee (not more then 0,05 US$ per word) translation projects.
They aren't a rich country, I suppose they really can't offer much more.
And every time when I finish a project, there are many problems about the payment.
They never want to pay what the offer you in the beginning.
That'd be more tolerable in the east than in the west. In the west, the two parties have agreed on the service and the price, and that's binding, there's no going back. In the east, negotiation may be understood to continue a while longer, even perhaps to the point money changes hands.
This said, I dislike renegotiation of the price on less than solid legal grounds. Solid legal grounds do include deficient quality (i.e. less than promised), but in my opinion it is wrong to question the quality of a good product or service. It is also wrong to exaggerate the same for the purposes of obtaining a rebate.
Some excuses for not paying the original fee are:
- The quality of the translation is not enough. So they will pay less or nothing, but then they want you to work again for them!!!!!!!!!!!
In my book, an outsourcer who continues to want to work with you isn't really serious about the quality complaints. One needs to be careful here: some people really will give you a second chance if they believe that you have delivered disappointing quality so far. But people who keep you on the book despite having consistent issues with the quality... that's another story.
But, again, their culture may be more tolerant of post-sale renegotiation and of the embellishment of any quality issues than we are.
In fact, whereas we tend to believe that the promise of payment in the specified amount is binding even though one may have some misgivings about the quality of product or service received (or both), they may believe that the promise of quality corresponds proportionally to the promise of payment.
This said, I wannna say one thing to you very clearly as a (former) lawyer: the general standard in the west is adequate, not top-notch goods. Services are more complicated, also because of high professional diligence, but in my opinion the high professional diligence refers mostly to equivalence (i.e. how faithful your translation is), while the quality of writing is more of an adequate-or-not kind of thing, where it should be impossible to argue for any sort of rebates just because the quality is merely good rather than exceptional.
Some agencies will draft their standard terms and conditions so as to enable themselves to pay you the full compensation agreed only when they judge in their sole wisdom that the quality was the best because they – being the high-nosed pricks that they are – will only accept highest quality (like they deserve the best or something). Screw them. Keep looking unless you're paid what that sort of quality guarantee is really worth, i.e. through the nose.
- They offer you first a project with a specific rate, and then two or three day’s later wanted to pay you less, because the client has not enough money, or the project costs are to high!!!!!
That's eastern-style price arguing to you. A cultural difference. Intolerable in the west, standard fare in the east. Above all – a game. East or west, tell them no. In any culture, you can hold a man to his promise.
- They discount you their bank fees for making their deposit on Paypal or Moneybrookers for paying you, so you get less money paying their bank fees!!!!!!!
Westerners do that as well. Just be clear about it with your outsourcers. Discuss it in advance.
Now I have passed many problems, specific with Indian translation companies and take the decision not to work more for them, and make my recommendation not to work for them after these experiences!!!!!!!!!
Don't apply collective responsibility. I'm pretty sure there must be some that are good.
Also, there's a whole throng of westerners causing problems. It's just that the problems westerners cause look more familiar, so they tend to be mostly ignored in comparison to the reaction evoked by the way in which eastern outsourcers act up (if an when they do).
Have you also many problems with them?
Lack of response only. Nothing to base generalisations on. And low rates. But I've also had west-based companies offer the same rates to me. The difference is that Indian companies live in a poorer country with lower prices than UK or US or otherwise western outsourcers.
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 06:27
Miembro 2006
inglés al hindi
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LOCALIZADOR DEL SITIO | No, it is not a cultural issue, Lukasz | Jul 31, 2013 |
Łukasz Gos-Furmankiewicz wrote:
Miguel Jimenez wrote:
I really don’t understand why Indian translation companies are so complicate.
Cultural factors. Your culture and theirs are different. The interaction will reflect the differences.
Now I have three year working with several Indian companies in very low fee (not more then 0,05 US$ per word) translation projects.
They aren't a rich country, I suppose they really can't offer much more.
Nor is it a question of India being rich or poor. There are very rich Indians too, some rank among the richest in the world.
The reason for these repeated complaints is that many of these Indian agencies are actually translators who bid for jobs as individual translators on sites like proz.com (and you all know the jobs here are not known for the best prices) and then sublet them to other translators at even less rates and pocket the balance. They don't have any working capital nor any quality checking norms, so they can pay only when their client pays, and since they take job as individual translators and often they have to face tight deadlines, they are able to provide even less time to their translators to finish the job. Which explains the constant badgering for getting the work done quickly. And if for any reason the end client rejects the job, either for quality reasons (these agencies have no way of checking the quality themselves, they just don't have the mechanisms for this), or because the deadline has been missed, they have no funds to pay the translator.
Having said that, I am sure there are also many excellent agencies in India which are second to none and who pay well and on time and have quality checking mechanisms in place. But these are far outnumbered by the fly-by-the-night operators.
The more alarming thing for me is that many of the international biggies such as the famous jungle king agency have opened shop in India and are adopting the low rate practices of the disreputable local agencies.
I must also add that this is not an India specific phenomenon and is found in other similar countries also such as Egypt, and even with some European companies, especially those in Spain.
My experience with China-based companies have been better. They are certainly low paying, but I have never faced payment-related issues with them. They pay what is agreed on time. Probably they have more working capital and better internal mechanisms.
The bottom line is, our industry is very diverse, and translators would do well to be careful as to with whom they work.
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| Don't Blame Country for few non payers. | Apr 12, 2014 |
Miguel Jimenez wrote:
I really don’t understand why Indian translation companies are so complicate.
Now I have three year working with several Indian companies in very low fee (not more then 0,05 US$ per word) translation projects.
And every time when I finish a project, there are many problems about the payment.
They never want to pay what the offer you in the beginning.
Some excuses for not paying the original fee are:
- The quality of the translation is not enough. So they will pay less or nothing, but then they want you to work again for them!!!!!!!!!!!
-
- They offer you first a project with a specific rate, and then two or three day’s later wanted to pay you less, because the client has not enough money, or the project costs are to high!!!!!
-
- They discount you their bank fees for making their deposit on Paypal or Moneybrookers for paying you, so you get less money paying their bank fees!!!!!!!
Now I have passed many problems, specific with Indian translation companies and take the decision not to work more for them, and make my recommendation not to work for them after these experiences!!!!!!!!!
Have you also many problems with them?
I request you to please don't blame a country for few of non payers. You can check on Proz itself some of the top Agencies rated by proz are Indian who have taken 5/5 blue board ranking. These ranking given by translators who are not just Indian but all over the world.
You can check even our blue board ranking. We have been doing business for last seven years and paying to our translators as commitment.
This non payment issue is per individual. Please don't involve country in this.
| | | | Thayenga
Alemania
Local time: 01:57
Miembro 2009
inglés al alemán
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| A few bad apples... | Apr 13, 2014 |
When I started out as a freelancer, I did work with 2 agencies in India. Admittedly, their rates are (were) on the lower end of the scale, but both always paid on time and the support rendered by them in case of problems was fast and efficient.
After a while I stopped working with both, the main reason being that there was no way to earn a living here in Germany based on Indian rates minus PayPal fees.
The other reason was that I was expected to endlessly keep editing /... See more When I started out as a freelancer, I did work with 2 agencies in India. Admittedly, their rates are (were) on the lower end of the scale, but both always paid on time and the support rendered by them in case of problems was fast and efficient.
After a while I stopped working with both, the main reason being that there was no way to earn a living here in Germany based on Indian rates minus PayPal fees.
The other reason was that I was expected to endlessly keep editing / revising some web content I had written. Corrections, fine because these are part of the original contract. Proofreading and perhaps some editing, also acceptable. However, being expected to change or re-write or even create extensive new content for exactly USD 0.00 (no typo!) several months after the final project was delivered and accepted, was a little too much for me. Since we were unable to come to a sense whether or not writing more content was included in the original contract (it wasn't) and in the one-time payment, the collaboration came to an end... without any resentiments on my part. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | One thing that needs to be said | Apr 13, 2014 |
One thing which needs to be said is that agencies from the East at least tend to be polite, whereas boorish manners are becoming standard among agencies in the West.
| | | | Khwansuree DEROLLEPOT
Francia
Local time: 01:57
Miembro 2012
inglés al tailandés
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LOCALIZADOR DEL SITIO | Agree that we cannot generalise... | Apr 14, 2014 |
First I have to admit that I do not work with Indian agencies any more. Well, when you are kept busy and get better pay with other clients, I think no one would even bother looking at those low-rate offers, to be honest.
We also have to admit that all rates offered by Indian agencies are low. This has become a fact. It is normal that they establish their rates according to the country's cost of living, same in Thailand, Vietnam and some agencies in Taiwan or China. And most of the t... See more First I have to admit that I do not work with Indian agencies any more. Well, when you are kept busy and get better pay with other clients, I think no one would even bother looking at those low-rate offers, to be honest.
We also have to admit that all rates offered by Indian agencies are low. This has become a fact. It is normal that they establish their rates according to the country's cost of living, same in Thailand, Vietnam and some agencies in Taiwan or China. And most of the time I agree they do that because they cannot afford higher prices. (Except some cases some of us have already raised up). A funny thing is, a number of agencies in the US offer the same rates!
However, from my experience in the past when I started out in translation business, the couple of Indian agencies I worked with were decent. They paid what they owed, more or less on time (well, late payments don't only occur in India, we all know), and never gave strange excuses to pay less). Even though I agree some of them did paid late saying the clients hadn't paid them yet.
What I'm trying to say here is, we cannot generalise. There are good and bad agencies everywhere. The only inconvenience with Indian agencies is that their rates are low, and most of them cannot help it. If you need those projects, at least choose to work with decent agencies, if you don't, why bother wasting your time moaning?
[Edited at 2014-04-14 08:45 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Yasser Shaikh
Estados Unidos
Local time: 18:57
inglés al urdu
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| Not all agencies are agencies, some are just subcontractors. | Sep 25, 2014 |
Miguel Jimenez wrote:
I really don’t understand why Indian translation companies are so complicate.
Now I have three year working with several Indian companies in very low fee (not more then 0,05 US$ per word) translation projects.
And every time when I finish a project, there are many problems about the payment.
They never want to pay what the offer you in the beginning.
Some excuses for not paying the original fee are:
- The quality of the translation is not enough. So they will pay less or nothing, but then they want you to work again for them!!!!!!!!!!!
-
- They offer you first a project with a specific rate, and then two or three day’s later wanted to pay you less, because the client has not enough money, or the project costs are to high!!!!!
-
- They discount you their bank fees for making their deposit on Paypal or Moneybrookers for paying you, so you get less money paying their bank fees!!!!!!!
Now I have passed many problems, specific with Indian translation companies and take the decision not to work more for them, and make my recommendation not to work for them after these experiences!!!!!!!!!
Have you also many problems with them?
I am an Indian in the US. Before I moved here, I worked in-house for a translation company. It was an actual company that received original jobs and had 20 people working on translation, transcription, project management, etc. Most of the other agencies I know of are either a one person opening up an agency and sub contracting the work they receive from agencies or someone who's agency is just too small and doesn't have enough experience. I continue to work with Indian agencies but I always look up their size, translator feedback, location, e-mail addresses, etc. That said, not all small agencies are bad and not all big companies in India are saints. Just make sure to not budge from your price, never begin work without a PO (I got burnt like that with Vokian) and always ask about payment terms. If their PO is not professional looking, there is a slight cause for worry too.
| | | | golf264
Estados Unidos
Local time: 19:57
inglés al neerlandés
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| Reinventing the wheel | Oct 17, 2014 |
I just plainly refuse to work for some outsourcers out some countries. I won't even sollicit anymore.
And my experience many times are western countries. It is no much the country as who the outsourcer is.
| | | | | Ask them for a good fee and payment in advance or leave it... | Oct 17, 2014 |
I only work with these companies if they agree to pay my rate (generally speaking minimum 3 times what they propose) and if they pay 100 % in advance before I start working...
There are so many reliable well paying agencies around that you do not need to work with companies who offer low cost or no pay at all!
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