| Páginas sobre el tema: < [1 2] | Poll: What quality do you think is most important when choosing a translator? Autor de la hebra: ProZ.com Staff
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| Another twist on relevance ...... | Nov 6, 2006 |
Williamson wrote:
Mother-tongue/native language is only relevant if your mother was a highly educated/skilled woman using an elaborated code in daily live and not somebody, who can bearly read and write the standard-language and speaks a restricted code dialect.
And who innately would know and apply the difference between "daily life" and "daily live" and realise that a bear is barely ever caught reading.
Sure they're just typos but, as you so often say, the proof is in the pudding ........:)
[Edited at 2006-11-06 13:26]
| | | | | You can't replace it, but look at all the people who have changed it. | Nov 6, 2006 |
Dan Marasescu wrote: Williamson wrote:
Mother-tongue/native language is only relevant if your mother was a highly educated/skilled woman using an elaborated code in daily live "Mother tongue" or "native speaker" are nice metaphors, but rather inaccurate phrases really. A native speaker as I understand it is in most cases someone born in a family in which that language is spoken, raised and educated in a country where that language is spoken. Now, in my opinion, this is the only thing you cannot replace.
I agree with the opinion that being able to translate in the first place is the main criterion. People can be fluent in 5 different languages and yet not be able to translate. Imho, it's a mindset that you have or you don't. Skills can be increased or added to but the basic talent is inborn.
As for the ongoing native language issue. couldn't agree with Dan more. You can't replace that experience. But as pointed out on a forum dedicated to this prob, many, on the Dutch site in particular for some reason (but not exclusively there), have either recently added English as their latest native language or have simply dropped Dutch altogether, despite having be born, raised and educated in the Netherlands. And for some reason, this is perfectly possible on Proz.
| | | | Helene Diu 
Francia
Local time: 05:16
Miembro 2004
inglés al francés
| What reply would an outsourcer chose? | Nov 6, 2006 |
Hi all,
Interesting replies and the debate can go on on education and experience, however I'm afraid that an outsourcer with a job will do what any purchaser would do: they'll ask for a few quotes and in most cases, hire the cheapest translator.
My 2 cents (per source word - ah ah, only joking)
Helene
| | | | | Overall impression | Nov 6, 2006 |
At the top of my list would be:
E-mail correspondence/professional interaction:
Spelling, style, coherence, organization etc. are important.
If a translator is not able to write good e-mails, how is she/he supposed to write good translations? This, of course, needs to take into consideration whether the language used is the target language. But even for the source language, I'd expect good language skills. I'd also consider the response time.
... See more At the top of my list would be:
E-mail correspondence/professional interaction:
Spelling, style, coherence, organization etc. are important.
If a translator is not able to write good e-mails, how is she/he supposed to write good translations? This, of course, needs to take into consideration whether the language used is the target language. But even for the source language, I'd expect good language skills. I'd also consider the response time.
Test Translation:
I've seen "translators" with really nice looking CVs, qualifications, education, claiming to be native speakers in both source and target language, 20 years of experience....
But when it comes to actually translate 4 or 5 sentences it shows that they don't understand the source properly and can't write a single grammatically correct sentence in the target language.
I'd always prefer a more practically oriented proof of quality/ability. Therefore, I would also take a look at the person's Kudoz questions and answers. 
All these qualities are missing from the poll. Therefore my answer was Other. ▲ Collapse
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Mariana Moreira
Portugal
Local time: 04:16
Miembro 2004
inglés al portugués
+ ...
| I couldn't agree more | Nov 6, 2006 |
Williamson wrote:
Education+specialisation+experience.
I wasn't able to vote because you cannot choose only one criteria and I wouldn't vote "Other" either as the most important ones for me are listed.
| | | | | How about a person who grew up in several countries? | Nov 7, 2006 |
Dan Marasescu wrote:
A native speaker as I understand it is in most cases someone born in a family in which that language is spoken, raised and educated in a country where that language is spoken. Now, in my opinion, this is the only thing you cannot replace.
What happens if a person is born in Brazil, into a Brazilian family who speaks Brazilian Portuguese, then the family moves to Germany when the person is six years old? At six, he starts learning German and goes to school in German, all the while he still speaks Portuguese at home with his family and reads books in Portuguese. At nineteen, he meets his future wife (also Brazilian) and he goes to Japan for his studies and decides to stay there. He invites his soon-to-be wife to live with him in Japan, where he becomes a translator - all the while he speaks Portuguese at home, with his wife and kids, and still observes Brazilian traditions.
My question is this: because he was born in one country, got educated in two others and ends up in an environment where his original language is not spoken, does this mean that he DOESN'T HAVE a native language? He should not become a translator because his parents moved to Germany when he was six?
I just think those requirements are a little bit too stringent... Besides, I don't think that the fact that this guy lived in three countries necessarily takes his native language and culture out of him.
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Thank you for voting and for your comments. I understand that a single quality cannot make a translator, and usually translators are chosen according to a combination of qualities, but my aim was to find out which particular qualities play a decisive role and their importance. Of course I’d like to give more choices, but the number of fields was limited. Maybe this poll will help us better market our services. It turns out that experience comes the first, even before mother tongue, but strange... See more Thank you for voting and for your comments. I understand that a single quality cannot make a translator, and usually translators are chosen according to a combination of qualities, but my aim was to find out which particular qualities play a decisive role and their importance. Of course I’d like to give more choices, but the number of fields was limited. Maybe this poll will help us better market our services. It turns out that experience comes the first, even before mother tongue, but strange as it is, on the translator search page experience is not reflected, maybe because it’s really hard to check what translators declare on their profiles. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dan Marasescu
Rumania
Local time: 05:16
Miembro 2003
inglés al rumano
+ ...
| Professionalism | Nov 7, 2006 |
I think it takes a lot of effort for a person in this situation to maintain his language to a native level. I'm sure it is possible, but not very frequent. On the other hand, losing the native language is also possible and... very scary. On the Cambridge Proficiency Certificate it says "near-native speaker". I know for a fact that some people could be labeled as "ex-native speakers". I wouldn't employ such a person as a translator, but, of course, the only way to tell is a translation test.
... See more I think it takes a lot of effort for a person in this situation to maintain his language to a native level. I'm sure it is possible, but not very frequent. On the other hand, losing the native language is also possible and... very scary. On the Cambridge Proficiency Certificate it says "near-native speaker". I know for a fact that some people could be labeled as "ex-native speakers". I wouldn't employ such a person as a translator, but, of course, the only way to tell is a translation test.
It would be interesting to define the "knows how to translate" skill. But the question I would ask myself is: I know this translator knows how to translate, but does he do it constantly? In other words, does he do it in a professional manner? Not everyone who makes a living as a translator acts professionally. If I were to add something to Henrik's list, it would be professionalism.
Viktoria Gimbe wrote:
My question is this: because he was born in one country, got educated in two others and ends up in an environment where his original language is not spoken, does this mean that he DOESN'T HAVE a native language? He should not become a translator because his parents moved to Germany when he was six?
I just think those requirements are a little bit too stringent... Besides, I don't think that the fact that this guy lived in three countries necessarily takes his native language and culture out of him. ▲ Collapse
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Latin_Hellas (X)
Estados Unidos
Local time: 05:16
italiano al inglés
+ ...
| The Results Speak For Themselves | Nov 7, 2006 |
Interesting that experience and specialization account for almost 60% of the results and that education lags far behind.
Of course education is important, even crucial, but by itself it is often overpriced and almost always overrated.
Experience and specialization give real meaning and value, including market value, to education.
This is a reality and the poll results reflect it.
| | | | Williamson
Reino Unido
Local time: 04:16
flamenco al inglés
+ ...
| Poor mother-tongue | Nov 7, 2006 |
Interesting that mother-tongue only got 20% Indeed, it reflects a reality.
| | | | | mother tongue alone would be a very silly way to pick a translator | Nov 7, 2006 |
Williamson wrote: Interesting that mother-tongue only got 20% Indeed, it reflects a reality .
I vote 'other' because so many factors have to come together to find someone who can really translate professionally. Being a native speaker of the target language is important but certainly not as a stand-alone criteria. Being able to translate is useful too, along with writing skills, knowledge of the subject matter, experience, in-depth knowledge of the source language etc. So I wouldn't gloat too much about the native speaker issue. It does matter but not on its own. 
| | | | Giles Watson
Italia
Local time: 05:16
italiano al inglés
In Memoriam | What about availability? | Nov 7, 2006 |
All the factors people have mentioned are of course important.
But in real life, on the not very many occasions when I have a job to get done or pass on, I generally know exactly who I would like to do it.
Sadly, he or she will be busy, as often as not.
FWIW
Giles
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Olivier Vasseur
Francia
Local time: 05:16
Miembro 2004
inglés al francés
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| paranoia, wwa and others | Nov 7, 2006 |
I often say — though not to clients — that my main quality as a translator is paranoia. I guess it's part of what someone called "professionalism" — doubting and checking. Taht leads me to ask myself many time-consuming questions :
Is this word used in its everyday meaning (which I know) or in a specialised one (which I do not know)?
Is the name I give to this technological gizmo the name used by people who s... See more I often say — though not to clients — that my main quality as a translator is paranoia. I guess it's part of what someone called "professionalism" — doubting and checking. Taht leads me to ask myself many time-consuming questions :
Is this word used in its everyday meaning (which I know) or in a specialised one (which I do not know)?
Is the name I give to this technological gizmo the name used by people who sell it?
Does the client has a name for this (in an already translated website for instance)?
Of course, this is pretty useless to choose a translator, because a client can't know what happens in the head of the translator when he works.
what about the wwa system? After all, if others were satisfied, the translator probably have the right mix of qualities required for a good job. Of course, it's better to check who these clients are: what do translators say about them in the blueboard? How much do they pay? (a 0.02 cent/word client can't afford to be picky) etc.
As to mother tongue, it's essential, though not sufficient. I remember proofreading a translator who translated "the Unites States of America" into "les États-Unis de l'Amérique" in French, literally "the United States of the America". He knew enough French to know that define articles are not always used as in English, but unfortunately, this was a case when a word-for-word transaltion was required.
I feel that translators should alway translate into their mother tongue, but there are exemples of non-native speaker writing
Conrad knew no English when he became a sailor at 17(and he went first onboard a French ship, so he probably started English 3 years later)
Nabokov wrote his first novels in Russian, then wrote in English. (he did not learn it as an adult, since he had an English nurse)
Becket wrote in English and French. ▲ Collapse
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Olivier Vasseur wrote:
I feel that translators should alway translate into their mother tongue, but there are exemples of non-native speaker writing ...
Becket wrote in English and French.
I think the reason why Beckett wrote in a language other than his mother tongue is the very reason why translators shouldn't. He wrote in French because, as he said, in a foreign language it was easier for him to write "without style".
[Edited at 2006-11-07 19:01]
[Edited at 2006-11-07 19:02]
| | | | Textklick
Local time: 04:16
alemán al inglés
+ ...
In Memoriam | Overlooked something? | Nov 8, 2006 |
"What quality do you think..."
A bit rhetorical. Who is "you"?
Do you you mean translators who like to think that this or that criterion is important in order to get a job?
Do you mean outsourcers/direct customers who may well have other criteria?
Do you mean freelancers who outsource?
These are all variables for respondents here and inevitably frustrate... See more "What quality do you think..."
A bit rhetorical. Who is "you"?
Do you you mean translators who like to think that this or that criterion is important in order to get a job?
Do you mean outsourcers/direct customers who may well have other criteria?
Do you mean freelancers who outsource?
These are all variables for respondents here and inevitably frustrate any rational evaluation.
When I outsource, then it is to someone who I can trust to do the job. Through networking both on Proz and elsewhere, I would usually know where to go. Surely that's what it's all about (or have I lost the plot)?
As bale 002 rightly says:
Of course education is important, even crucial, but by itself it is often overpriced and almost always overrated.
Give me someone I know and trust to do the particular job on time - and bloody well. And let it be the same for me, despite education. ▲ Collapse
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