Glossary entry

español term or phrase:

Puede tener antifaz

inglés translation:

It may have a saddle

Added to glossary by Eileen Brophy
Jan 3, 2017 23:18
7 yrs ago
10 viewers *
español term

Puede tener antifaz

español al inglés Mercadeo Mercadeo / Estudios de mercado footwear
This is the context: Mocasín que se caracteriza porque la pala está cosida
al resto del empeine. Puede tener antifaz

I can't find "antifaz" related to shoes anywhere.

Thank you for any help

Discussion

Eileen Brophy (asker) Jan 9, 2017:
@Toni Castano
We have to learn by our mistakes and I have done today, thanks to your comments regarding options for answers. As for consideration and politeness, I have to say the same to you, it has been a real pleasure meeting you.

Regards,

Eileen
Toni Castano Jan 8, 2017:
@Eileen There is no need to regret anything. I very much appreciate your consideration and politeness. It has been a pleasure to have been helpful.
Kind regards, Toni Castaño.
Eileen Brophy (asker) Jan 8, 2017:
@Toni Castano I am sorry to have excluded Spanish speakers from participating in the question, I didn't realise what I had done. My apologies, I simply thought we had to choose an option for answers and, logically I want my answer to be in English as it is a translation from Spanish.

Proposed translations

+1
1 hora
Selected

It may have a saddle

This is the technical term. A strap is a fastening (with a buckle), but this is a decorative strip across the vamp (the instep). As Robin rightly says, the answers to the previous question (vamp or upper) are wrong, though somebody does mention the term saddle there in the discussion

This feature is characteristic of loafers, especially the classic penny loafer, rather than moccasins. In English moccasins and loafers are distinguished but in Spanish mocasín tends to be used for both. These are probably loafers.

A Google image search for "mocasín" + "antifaz" gives you lots of pictures of shoes with this strip, which make it pretty clear that's what antifaz means. The following comes close to an explicit definition:

"Quizá el nombre de penny loafer te parezca sumamente raro, y aunque éste sea tomado como un mocasín más, su característico detalle de tira de piel en el empeine le merce también el nombre de mocasín de antifaz."
https://www.trendenciashombre.com.mx/accesorios/elegantes-y-...

I think the term (lit. mask) probably refers to the typical diamond-shaped cut-out in this strip, which gave penny loafers their name (supposedly people kept a couple of "pennies" in the hole), comparing it to the eyehole in a mask.

Anyway, saddle is what this strip is called. It's a bit confusing, because saddle can also be a sewn part of the upper, as in two-tone saddle shoes or saddle Oxfords:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddle_shoe

But in loafers it's the strip, the "antifaz":

"Sometimes loafers feature a piece of leather across the vamp, which is known as a saddle [...]
Wildsmith loafer in brown with Moccasin construction and typical saddle [...]
The Penny Loafer
In 1936 (some sources put the date as 1934), the G.H.Bass shoe company introduced its version of the loafer, and the company is known for it to this day. Their design included a distinctive strip of leather (the saddle) of the shoe with a diamond-shaped cut-out."
https://www.gentlemansgazette.com/loafer-guide-penny-gucci-t...

"Add to your work or formal attire with this sleek penny loafer shoe. It comes with a traditional penny saddle, apron stitching and round toe. The flexible sole completes this smart style."
http://www.dunelondon.com/riggs-penny-saddle-loafer-shoe-038...


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Note added at 2 hrs (2017-01-04 01:21:45 GMT)
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Do you mean they've told you to translate "antifaz" as "loafer", as in "It may have a loafer"? That's just plain wrong; in fact it's nonsense. A loafer is a type of shoe and an antifaz is a part of a shoe. Most loafers, though not all, have an antifaz, a saddle. I suppose they might mean that you should translate "Puede tener antifaz" as "It may be a loafer" (better would be "a penny loafer"), though there seems no good reason to do it that way. Are you sure they don't mean that loafer is the word for mocasín here? That is true.
In any case, please don't put "loafer" in the glossary as the translation of "antifaz", or it will mislead everyone in future!

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Note added at 2 hrs (2017-01-04 01:32:17 GMT)
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I'm not saying you shouldn't do as you're told, Eileen. If they're paying, they're entitled to demand that that translation should be nonsense if they want. But let's be clear: translating antifaz as loafer is not just wrong, but complete nonsense.

I leave it to you to decide what to do with this question. If you think your client is right, you'd better close it without grading, I suppose. Alternatively, if you think either Robin's answer or mine is right, you could take the opportunity to get a correct answer into the glossary, since we already have a wrong one.

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Note added at 16 hrs (2017-01-04 15:23:55 GMT)
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Re. Helena's comment. First point: I carefully explained that the saddle on loafers is a different use of the word from the one in saddle shoes, so that point is irrelevant. Second, other words are sometimes used, yes. Some manufacturers do refer to "straps" on loafers, but they're quite often referring to a fastening strap, or at least to a decorative strip with a buckle that looks like one, and which is not an antifaz. "Strip" is better, but it's not specific enough; it could mean various things. "Mask" is calqued from Spanish. "Penny holder" is occasionally found but only for the exact original penny loafer type of saddle.

I looked at and weighed up all these options before answering, looking at frequency and exact meaning.

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Note added at 16 hrs (2017-01-04 15:29:33 GMT)
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Look at images for "saddle loafers". You won't see any golf shoes.

Next should be pretty reliable. See here saddle loafers, snaffle loafers and tassel loafers. The first are mocasines con antifaz; the pictures are exactly the same.
http://www.next.co.uk/shop/gender-men-productaffiliation-foo...

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Note added at 16 hrs (2017-01-04 15:36:28 GMT)
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So, as I say:
Strap usually implies with buckle
Strip is descriptively accurate but too vague and not used by manufacturers (loafers with strips?)
Penny holder is pretty rare
Mask is used only by Spanish companies, as far as I can tell, for obvious reasons.

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Note added at 16 hrs (2017-01-04 16:09:37 GMT)
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Or try Wikipedia on types of loafers.
The Aurland (1930): "Raised seam on upper, similar to moccasin. Narrow cut out on saddle."
The Penny (1936): "G.H. Bass of Wilton, Maine launched a loafer called the ‘Weejun’. It became very popular in the U.S, especially among prep school students, who kept pennies in the saddle slot for pay phone calls. Hence the name ‘penny loafers’."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slip-on_shoe#Types_of_loafer

Aurland loafers:
https://www.visitflam.com/en/aurlandskoen/

Penny loafers everywhere.
Note from asker:
Thanks for all your links, etc Charles, I have been given "Loafer" as the word by the people who asked me to do the work, so it seems I have to leave that there. I am sorry after all the work you have done to find the information.
Thanks for your message Charles, I have no intentions of shutting this down,my client could well be wrong, I think they are, so I am leaving this open.
Thank you very much Charles for your help (I sincerely hope I have chosen the right answer as I am still not 100% sure about this one!!)
Peer comment(s):

agree Toni Castano : I´m not an expert on this, but I think this type of shoe is called "castellanos" (classic) and also "mocasines" (casual) in Spain. If so, I think you can call them "saddle penny loafers" or, and this might be the point, also "beefroll penny loafers".
15 horas
Thanks, Toni. The plot thickens! I think beefroll refers to a type of stitching. I think you're right about castellanos/mocasines.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+1
14 minutos
español term (edited): antifaz

strap

Referring to:
http://esl.proz.com/kudoz/spanish_to_english/poetry_literatu...
the answer might be "upper" or "vamp".

BUT, all shoes (and mocasins in particular) have an "upper" or "vamp". So, in Eileen's context, we are looking for something that's optional (puede tener...).

What's optional and serves the same purpose as an "upper"? - a (decorative) strap.
Note from asker:
Thank you Robin, you saved my life <3
Peer comment(s):

agree Helena Chavarria : I've discovered that different manufacturers use different names, including strap, strip, mask, penny holder. Saddle shoes are worn by golfers.
14 horas
Something went wrong...
12 horas

may have fringe

If it refers to the frilly bit... I just call it a fringe.

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Note added at 12 hrs (2017-01-04 12:10:13 GMT)
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https://www.google.co.uk/#q=Fringed loafer

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Note added at 12 hrs (2017-01-04 12:11:08 GMT)
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This particular model from Evans has a fetching little bow on top of the fringeÑ
http://www.evans.co.uk/en/evuk/product/black-fringe-loafer-5...
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

17 horas
Reference:

I found this reference

https://www.calzadosrosi.com/en/index.php?controller=posts&f...

- Castellanos de antifaz
Los mocasines de antifaz, también conocidos como mocasín Beefroll (especialmente en los países anglosajones), son sin lugar a dudas los más clásicos y los primeros que se nos vienen a la mente cuando hablamos de zapatos castellanos.


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Note added at 17 hrs (2017-01-04 17:14:01 GMT)
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@Eileen: Because it think it is not an option, really. I agree with Charles ("saddle" fits, I believe). If "beefroll" is really accurate here is something beyond my knowledge (I always use shoes with laces! :-). I am not an expert on this specific matter.
But allow me to say, with all due respect, that opening the topics to non-native speakers can be of great help sometimes. I do not post answers in Kudoz-questions not open to non-native speakers. I respect that restriction.
Note from asker:
Thank you Toni
Why don't you post it as an option Toni?
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree Charles Davis : Nice reference, Toni, but I don't think beefroll means antifaz: "The term "beefroll" refers to the visible stitching on the shoe's toe box that resembles the cut of beef tied up with cooking string" http://www.valetmag.com/the-edit/objectified/040111.php
6 horas
Hi Charles, still online, like you. Yes, I didn´t say it does. Your answer has my support. What puzzles me is the huge amount of references with the term "beefroll" applicable to this kind of shoe.
Something went wrong...
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