| Páginas sobre el tema: < [1 2] | Poll: Are you familiar with "post editing"? Autor de la hebra: ProZ.com Staff
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Trevor Chichester ranted
Thing is, if post-edited MT is as bad as you say, skilled translators have nothing to worry about.
| | | | Trevor Chichester 
Estados Unidos
Local time: 14:03
Miembro 2012
alemán al inglés
+ ...
| That's not the point. | May 2, 2017 |
Chris S wrote: Trevor Chichester ranted Thing is, if post-edited MT is as bad as you say, skilled translators have nothing to worry about.
The issue is that if enough people start agreeing to work with MT and post-editing projects it will then start becoming the norm. Why would they place regular translation projects with skilled translators when they can just throw the project into OCR, throw it into MT and then pay some poor sap peanuts to "post-edit" the project at a fraction of the price?
Mark my words, if you get enough people willing to work on MT/post-editing it WILL start becoming the norm.
| | | | | small correction | May 2, 2017 |
Thayenga wrote: I did a few PE-jobs when I started out. It's quite a challenging job, usually paid at the level of the translation: peanuts for the monkey. It's been a few years since I stopped wasting my time on something that just might, at least in some fields, attempt to eliminate real translators. Although it can be quite entertaining to read what a machine has produced, I wouldn't touch (and haven't touched) any PE-jobs because..."I had my nose full from it" = this is the actually machine generated translation of "I've had enough of it". 
I will correct you - it is usually paid at the level of the proofreading/editing. The clients will not even accept to be paid by the actual time spent.
I don't mind doing post editing as far as it is paid fairly. So far, no such luck.
I would say - peanut shells for the monkey.
| | | | Trevor Chichester
Estados Unidos
Local time: 14:03
Miembro 2012
alemán al inglés
+ ...
Elena Aleksandrova wrote: Thayenga wrote: I did a few PE-jobs when I started out. It's quite a challenging job, usually paid at the level of the translation: peanuts for the monkey. It's been a few years since I stopped wasting my time on something that just might, at least in some fields, attempt to eliminate real translators. Although it can be quite entertaining to read what a machine has produced, I wouldn't touch (and haven't touched) any PE-jobs because..."I had my nose full from it" = this is the actually machine generated translation of "I've had enough of it". I will correct you - it is usually paid at the level of the proofreading/editing. The clients will not even accept to be paid by the actual time spent. I don't mind doing post editing as far as it is paid fairly. So far, no such luck. I would say - peanut shells for the monkey.
Exactly! Often the amount of work required to fix those disasters is astronomical. In fact, a complete rewrite is far easier in the long run.
And of course, they refuse to pay on actual time spent or even a rewrite.
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It's not my favourite thing, but I do it occasionally, to earn a few pennies. A plus point is that there are plenty of laughs at what the MT spews out.
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Trevor Chichester wrote:
Why would they place regular translation projects with skilled translators when they can just throw the project into OCR, throw it into MT and then pay some poor sap peanuts to "post-edit" the project at a fraction of the price?
Well they wouldn't. For the same reason that both you and I buy cheap stuff off the Internet.
If edited MT is of acceptable quality and cheaper, then there is no stopping it.
If it is not of acceptable quality, customers will carry on paying extra for a proper job.
You can't fight the laws of economics. Even the likes of Stalin and Kim Jong-un lose in the end.
| | | | John Fossey
Canadá
Local time: 14:03
Miembro 2008
francés al inglés
+ ...
Chris S wrote:
If edited MT is of acceptable quality and cheaper, then there is no stopping it.
Exactly.
Cheaper, yes.
Acceptable quality, depends. In most cases, no. In a few cases, such as gisting social media posts to find out what people are saying about your company, possibly. And in this case it might be the only way to keep up with the volume.
For serious work, where the translation just has to be right, no.
| | | | Mario Freitas
Brasil
Local time: 15:03
Miembro 2014
inglés al portugués
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| Yes, unfortunately | May 2, 2017 |
I'm familiar with it and I repugnate it thoroughly. It's a disgrace to our profession.
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A total scam practiced by unscrupulous clients trying to outwit hapless translators into fixing ridiculous machine translations at laughably pitiful rates. If you're a translator and you accept MT/post-editing jobs, you're probably a neophyte or know no better. But you're shooting yourself on the foot and are complicit in this scam. Plus you're depriving your colleagues of legitimate jobs in the future. I have nothing but scorn and derision from this. I'm surprised that some of you admit to acce... See more A total scam practiced by unscrupulous clients trying to outwit hapless translators into fixing ridiculous machine translations at laughably pitiful rates. If you're a translator and you accept MT/post-editing jobs, you're probably a neophyte or know no better. But you're shooting yourself on the foot and are complicit in this scam. Plus you're depriving your colleagues of legitimate jobs in the future. I have nothing but scorn and derision from this. I'm surprised that some of you admit to accepting these jobs. I agree with everything that Trevor has written here.
[Edited at 2017-05-03 01:23 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Trevor Chichester
Estados Unidos
Local time: 14:03
Miembro 2012
alemán al inglés
+ ...
If you're a translator and you accept MT/post-editing jobs, you're probably a neophyte or know no better. But you're shooting yourself on the foot and are complicit in this scam. Plus you're depriving your colleagues of legitimate jobs in the future. I have nothing but scorn and derision from this. I'm surprised that some of you admit to accepting these jobs.
[Edited at 2017-05-03 01:23 GMT]
^^^^ This should be shouted from the mountaintops by ALL OF US. If enough "translators" start taking enough of these laughable post-edit jobs we will ALL be out of a job or even worse be FORCED to work with this garbage for far less than we're already paid.
Just say NO. Keep our profession alive.
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Thayenga wrote: Although it can be quite entertaining to read what a machine has produced, I wouldn't touch (and haven't touched) any PE-jobs because..."I had my nose full from it" = this is the actually machine generated translation of "I've had enough of it".
...that is (or could be) the word-for-word translation for the French expression meaning exactly that: "J'en ai plein le nez." G***le just gave me "I have full nose" for that, which is even more inept. A fantastic example of why MT still has a good way to go - and why if post-editing is to be done, and properly, it needs the skills of a real translator with a solid knowledge of the source language. Who will take the time to go over the text carefully. And be paid an appropriate rate for a skilled job. QED (?)
[Edited at 2017-05-03 07:40 GMT]
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I have post-edited hundreds of thousands of words many years ago. My only drive being money and finding out first-hand what real in-house PEMT (post-edited machine translation) actually involved, it turned out that my hourly earnings exceeded those of a standard translation.
Last time I tried, I was offered €0.07/word (all words). I asked for and PEed a paid sample, but after a failed QA I realised that the agency wanted a translation that doesn't read like a translation. So that was it.... See more I have post-edited hundreds of thousands of words many years ago. My only drive being money and finding out first-hand what real in-house PEMT (post-edited machine translation) actually involved, it turned out that my hourly earnings exceeded those of a standard translation.
Last time I tried, I was offered €0.07/word (all words). I asked for and PEed a paid sample, but after a failed QA I realised that the agency wanted a translation that doesn't read like a translation. So that was it.
Customers who want PEMT get PEMT. Customers who want human translations using PEMT are mistaken.
Translators who use GT in my language pair with marketing/customer facing material, and then edit the output to try and make it more legible, should change jobs. Or be sent to Siberia.
Marcus Malabad wrote:
...If you're a translator and you accept MT/post-editing jobs, you're probably a neophyte or know no better. But you're shooting yourself on the foot and are complicit in this scam. Plus you're depriving your colleagues of legitimate jobs in the future. I have nothing but scorn and derision from this. I'm surprised that some of you admit to accepting these jobs...
Translators who can't translate any better than PEMT should also change jobs.
Have a nice day.
Philippe ▲ Collapse
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| J'en ai plein le lez | May 3, 2017 |
[quote]Victoria Britten wrote:
Thayenga wrote: Although it can be quite entertaining to read what a machine has produced, I wouldn't touch (and haven't touched) any PE-jobs because..."I had my nose full from it" = this is the actually machine generated translation of "I've had enough of it".
In Portuguese, GT gives something like "I love my nose"!
| | | | Mario Freitas
Brasil
Local time: 15:03
Miembro 2014
inglés al portugués
+ ...
I've always said in the discussions here that the translation market is clearly divided into two very distinct groups. (A) One group that accepts low rates and push our market down backed up by the countless incompetent agencies that pay peanuts and couldn't care less for quality; (B) and one group of real professionals who do not accept lower rates and only deliver high-quality jobs.
It was also very clear in another discussion that most people who believe MTs will eventually repla... See more I've always said in the discussions here that the translation market is clearly divided into two very distinct groups. (A) One group that accepts low rates and push our market down backed up by the countless incompetent agencies that pay peanuts and couldn't care less for quality; (B) and one group of real professionals who do not accept lower rates and only deliver high-quality jobs.
It was also very clear in another discussion that most people who believe MTs will eventually replace translators and we'd have to find another job belong to group A, and those who think this is an absurdity and will never happen belong to group B. People in Group A seem to be trying to learn other things, so they'll be able to survive when computers replace humans in their Sci-Fi world. People in group B keep investing in their skills as professional translators, as they believe they'll retire and die as translators only.
After this poll, I'd dare to add to the A/B list that group A tends to accept PE jobs, face it with naturality, and some even believe that's "the future of translation". Group B tends to reject it thoroughly, as seen below.
Which group is correct? Only time will tell. ▲ Collapse
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