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inventaire contradictoire

English translation: uncontested inventory

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:inventaire contradictoire
English translation:uncontested inventory
Entered by: Una D.

17:03 Apr 16, 2024
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Finance (general) / will and testament
French term or phrase: inventaire contradictoire
Context (19th century text) : a named executor of a will says "Soyez assuré que je ferai pour vous un inventaire en ordre et contradictoire, de manière à vous établir vos richesses." This is an inventory signed by multiple people to confirm that it is proper and correct, so I know that this is the meaning of "contradictoire" but I have seen various (contradictory - haha) definitions of terms like "joint inventory", "counter-inventory" and "concurrent inventory", and I'm not sure which is the correct one here.

Any ideas?
Thank you!
Una D.
France
Local time: 21:48
uncontested inventory
Explanation:
or mutually agreed / cross-checked / joint inventory


[un inventaire] contradictoire = an "uncontested" inventory, as all interested parties had the opportunity to object, and presumably didn't object (to the finally agreed version of the inventory).


I would understand here "un inventaire contradictoire" as "all the interested parties had the opportunity to check the accuracy of the inventory", by analogy with

− DR(oit). [En parlant d'un procès, d'une enquête] Où les parties antagonistes ont pu s'exprimer. Anton. par défaut :
4. Le tribunal d'Angoulême, ému par la belle plaidoirie de Cachan, rendit un jugement contradictoire entre toutes les parties, qui donna la propriété des meubles meublants seulement à Madame Séchard, repoussa les prétentions de Séchard père et le condamna net à payer quatre cent trente-quatre francs soixante-cinq centimes de frais. Balzac, Les Illusions perdues,1843, p. 611.
https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/contradictoire#:~:text=− DR....

In practical terms it would mean that this inventory is "uncontested" - as all those who could raise any objection had the opportunity to do so, and presumably did not.

IOW, however it may seem contradictory to the common meaning of "contradictoire", HERE "contradictoire" would in fact mean that there is no contradiction between what parties involved have to say about this inventory.
Selected response from:

Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:48
Grading comment
Thanks, this works well I think.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +1uncontested inventory
Daryo
4agreed (estate)inventory
AllegroTrans
4 -1inventory in the presence of both parties
Etienne Thems
3physical estate inventory (hist. 'polyptych') drawn up inter partes
Adrian MM.
3inventory signed off by several (independent) parties
Mpoma
3joint inventory
SafeTex


Discussion entries: 7





  

Answers


12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
inventory in the presence of both parties


Explanation:
Ma contribution

Etienne Thems
France
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: In this case, only one person's belongings are involved. This man has designated an executor for his will to draw up an inventory of his possessions, but the inventory is then confirmed and signed by multiple parties due to the value of the objects that end up going for sale.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Emmanuella: in the presence of all parties
5 mins
neutral  writeaway: No refs to back so much confidence? Admittedly, this has already been asked umpteen times
1 hr
neutral  Daryo: "... of ALL parties ..." // What makes you presume that there are ALWAYS only 2 parties involved?
6 hrs
disagree  AllegroTrans: Asker said there were "multiple people" who signed so your answer is plainly wrong
2 days 53 mins
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
physical estate inventory (hist. 'polyptych') drawn up inter partes


Explanation:
Notes:

1. there is only one ProZ entry for both words and that has already been alluded to in the Discussion Entries, including by any anti-Latinists : as per the first weblink below but 2. it's not drawn up by each of the parties, but is a multipartite event called in US litigation 'omnibus action' 3. and that does not refer to an estate - rather a restaurant - stock list 4. 19th century text suggests digging deep into Anglo-American probate (Scots law: Confirmation of Wills) history. Cut to mediaeval 'polyptychs' in the first example sentence.

Anyway, the PRs - personal representatives (executors of Will and adminsitrators on intestacy) are required by s. 25 of the UK Administration of Estates Act 1925, to draw up a full inventory (Law Dictionary, L.B. Curzon). For practical reasons in England & Wales + Scotland and NI, traditionally it need not be agreed and signed off by all the potential beneficiaries who may well turn out to be contestors of the Will: claimants / vexatious litigants.



Example sentence(s):
  • English Medieval Probate Inventories *These estate inventories or polyptychs*, recorded and valued land, buildings, objects, tenants, and other assets and functioned to ratify or stand as testament to the legal ownership of the recorded property.
  • inter partes: between the parties. Used *in particular* (but not only) in relation to court proceedings where both sides are present in court (as in a hearing inter partes). Cf ex parte.

    Reference: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/bus-financial/60...
    Reference: http://sintons.co.uk/personal-family-probate/inventory-and-a...
Adrian MM.
Austria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 81

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  AllegroTrans: Ah yes, medieval probate, what about doomsday surveys and Anglo-Saxon shire moots?
3 hrs
neutral  philgoddard: I thought 'privet' was weird, but you've really excelled yourself with 'polyptych'.
9 hrs
neutral  Daryo: As far as I can find a 'polyptych' is usually some work of art made on several panels joined by hinges. // Even with a lot of "creative thinking", I can't see WHERE would be the connection between that and a document deemed to be "contradictoire"???
10 hrs
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10 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
un inventaire contradictoire
uncontested inventory


Explanation:
or mutually agreed / cross-checked / joint inventory


[un inventaire] contradictoire = an "uncontested" inventory, as all interested parties had the opportunity to object, and presumably didn't object (to the finally agreed version of the inventory).


I would understand here "un inventaire contradictoire" as "all the interested parties had the opportunity to check the accuracy of the inventory", by analogy with

− DR(oit). [En parlant d'un procès, d'une enquête] Où les parties antagonistes ont pu s'exprimer. Anton. par défaut :
4. Le tribunal d'Angoulême, ému par la belle plaidoirie de Cachan, rendit un jugement contradictoire entre toutes les parties, qui donna la propriété des meubles meublants seulement à Madame Séchard, repoussa les prétentions de Séchard père et le condamna net à payer quatre cent trente-quatre francs soixante-cinq centimes de frais. Balzac, Les Illusions perdues,1843, p. 611.
https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/contradictoire#:~:text=− DR....

In practical terms it would mean that this inventory is "uncontested" - as all those who could raise any objection had the opportunity to do so, and presumably did not.

IOW, however it may seem contradictory to the common meaning of "contradictoire", HERE "contradictoire" would in fact mean that there is no contradiction between what parties involved have to say about this inventory.

Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:48
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 195
Grading comment
Thanks, this works well I think.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Mpoma: I see where you're coming from but for me this is too needlessly implicit about the notion of multiple parties actively being brought in to do their thing.
7 hrs
  -> It's only CL3, so I'm not saying that's a perfect translation, but should be good enough.
neutral  AllegroTrans: The crux is agreement, not absence of dispute
10 hrs
  -> There is an agreement because there was no dispute, or there is no longer a dispute. So as the end result it's "uncontested"//The "contradictoire" bit is about the opportunity to contest, so "no dispute" is an important element.
agree  Francois Boye
20 hrs
  -> Thanks!
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18 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
inventory signed off by several (independent) parties


Explanation:
... is what occurs to me on reading your discussion post.

As you say, this is just one person who is doing the initial inventory. So quite different to an inspection report where you actually have representatives from more than one interested party doing an inspection at the same time.

The main idea behind "contradictoire" is that more than one party/person is involved: Jugement contradictoire: "after due hearing of the parties" in a court case context. That expression demonstrates that there is no requirement of simultaneity: the "contradictoire" thing can be grafted on after the fact.

Mpoma
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:48
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 21
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19 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
agreed (estate)inventory


Explanation:
I don't see the need for anything more complicated



AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:48
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 267
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1 day 22 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
joint inventory


Explanation:
I don't see why people make things hard with translations like "uncontested inventory" when it may have been heavily contested.
Joint inventory is a past answer and the one I would go for.

SafeTex
France
Local time: 21:48
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 40
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