Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

Catastro vs. Registro de la Propiedad

English translation:

real estate register vs. property register/survey for tax purposes

Added to glossary by Sarah Weston
Nov 24, 2017 05:44
6 yrs ago
159 viewers *
Spanish term

Catastro vs. Registro de la Propiedad

Spanish to English Other Real Estate US English terms
In the UK, the Land Registry/Land Register could be argued to cover these two terms but I'm am translating to US English in this case and have no idea of what the equivalents would be or how to distinguish between them for a US audience. The source country is Spain. Context:

"Eventual discordancia en la información contenida en el Catastro respecto de la información registral
De conformidad con la información facilitada, en el Catastro consta inscrita una descripción de las fincas ubicadas en la zona oeste del Sector que podría no corresponderse con la que se refleja en el Registro de la Propiedad.
En concreto, en la zona que se identifica en la siguiente imagen:
A mayor abundamiento, en el Acta del Consejo Rector de x/xx/xxxx se indicó que debido a un error del Catastro, algunas parcelas se habían dibujado y denominado de forma diferente a como lo estaban con anterioridad, como sucedía en el caso de la parcela YYY, propiedad de ZZZ, perteneciente al ámbito de la depuradora [VER QUÉ FINCA REGSTRAL ES].
Se recomienda realizar un estudio a los efectos de verificar eventuales errores en la información contenida en el Catastro, en tanto que ello podría implicar retrasos en el procedimiento de inscripción del Proyecto de Reparcelación."

I am based in Mexico and as far as I understand it here, the "Catastro" registers the deeds and the "Registro de la Propriedad" records all other details about the properties, such as easements, mortgages, etc. I have found a couple of sites which suggest the "county real estate registers" cover the functions of the "Registro de la Propriedad", but obviously that would be too country-specific to put in a translation referring to Spain. Could it possibly be something like "Real Estate Registry" / "Registry of Deeds" (Catastro) and "Real Estate Register" (Registro de la Propriedad)

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

Discussion

Charles Davis Nov 24, 2017:
@Rebecca Thanks. I would love to launch into a discussion of "procurador". I'll resist the temptation for now, otherwise we'll probably be at it all morning! But if I remember, I'll offer my thoughts at some point.
Rebecca Jowers Nov 24, 2017:
@Charles In case you are interested and have a minute to spare, I've detailed my ideas on how to translate "procurador" in an entry in my blog on Spanish-English legal terminology:
https://rebeccajowers.com/2017/01/18/what-is-a-procurador/
Charles Davis Nov 24, 2017:
I know the feeling... I'm revising some poetry I've translated, due in by lunchtime. But taking a few minutes out can help; sometimes when you get back to it you suddenly see the solution.
I'm pretty happy with your "court representative" for "procurador" and say a mental "thank you" each time I use it. But if you come up with something better, I'd love to know!
And now back to work...
Rebecca Jowers Nov 24, 2017:
Hey, not to worry... Wasn't a distraction at all, and much more enjoyable than what awaits me for the rest of the morning! (I'm seeing that "Catastro" is almost as difficult to translate as "procurador".)
Charles Davis Nov 24, 2017:
Thanks! Sorry for the distraction; I'll let you get back to work. But this has been very enlightening, as always.
Rebecca Jowers Nov 24, 2017:
¡ojo!--typo tax purposes (not "purposed")--I'm typing away on this when I really should be grading 40 exams I have to return to my students on Monday!
Rebecca Jowers Nov 24, 2017:
@Charles Yes, but if someone looks up "cadastre/cadaster" or "cadastral survey" and gets to the US webpage (for example), seeing that this is a survey of the metes and bounds of federal public lands won't be too helpful in expressing what the the "Catastro" actually is in Spain. Maybe "Property Tax Register" instead of "for tax purposes", or perhaps the first time the term appears in a translation it could be rendered as "Catastro (property register for tax purposed", with all subsequent references left in Spanish as "Catastro". When there is no functional equivalent for a legal term, sometimes a "descriptive translation" has to suffice. They aren't always "snappy" renderings that fit nicely into a translated text, but as a professor once told me "accurate is always better than snappy". Anyway, there's no simple solution here.
Charles Davis Nov 24, 2017:
@Rebecca Yes, sure, that's quite true. I just wonder whether the word "tax" has to be mentioned every time we refer to the Catastro in English. It would be nice if an acceptable term could be found that didn't involve putting "for tax purposes" every time. It could get very clunky in some texts. I accept that "valor catastral" will have to be "value for property tax purposes" or "property tax valuation", or something like that (unless you are willing to bite the bullet and use the word "cadastral", on the basis that if people don't know it they can look it up; as I say, it saves a lot of trouble).
Rebecca Jowers Nov 24, 2017:
@Charles As I indicated in my comments, I agree that the "Catastro" has many functions, but since its main function (stressed in multiple sources, including the "Catastro" website) is to determine the "valor catastral" on which property tax is based, I don't see how you can accurately translate the term without somehow including "tax" in the rendering. There's no obligation to record title to real property on the "Registro de la Propiedad", but it must be recorded on the "Catastro" because the tax man wants your money!
Charles Davis Nov 24, 2017:
@Rebecca Many thanks for your extra comments. You make a strong case for expressing the tax function of the Catastro. My comment on the US cadastral survey was not intended to suggest that it is the same as the Spanish Catastro, but simply that the word itself is not alien to US English, even though most ordinary citizens have no doubt never heard of it. Personally I do use the word "cadastral" to translate this, not specifically for a US audience, and internationally the word inherently means a register of real property for taxation purposes. But I won't press that point; it's a matter of personal judgement. As it happens, my wife's family has recently had dealings with the Catastro for purposes not directly related to property tax, simply to clarify property boundaries. Identifying these, and identifying properties in general, is an important part of the Catastro's function. I had that in mind when I said that property tax is not its only function.
Rebecca Jowers Nov 24, 2017:
To add to the discussion... I tried to post a few additional comments, but they didn't fit in this space, so I have added them to my original answer
Charles Davis Nov 24, 2017:
@Sarah That might fly, and it fits my understanding, but I'd defer to Rebecca here. I think you'd probably want to replace "property" with "real estate" for a US audience. Perhaps I'm looking at this through UK eyes, but "Real Estate Register" versus "Property Register" doesn't make the difference clear to me, and, as I say, I think the word "property" is more applicable to the Registro de la Propiedad than to the Catastro, since the former is (as I understand it) primarily a register of ownership and the latter primarily a register of physical dimensions, though of course the two issues are not entirely separate.
Sarah Weston (asker) Nov 24, 2017:
Based on your thoughts Charles and.. combined with Rebecca's:

How about Property Survey Register (or even Cadastral Survey Register) (Catastro) and Property Title Register (Registro de Propriedad)?
Charles Davis Nov 24, 2017:
To my mind the difficulty is choosing the right terms in English. The concepts are not that difficult to distinguish. Since it's for US English I'm not going to propose a translation or arbitrate on others' proposals. But I do think it would be helpful to have something that makes the distinction clear. I think it's a pity to deny oneself the convenience of using the word "cadastral" on the grounds that US readers won't understand it, given that their own Federal Government has a cadastral survey as part of the Bureau of Land Management, with its own website ( http://www.cadastral.com/ ). However, I do think it's important to be clear (unless I've got this wrong) that the Catastro is not a register of deeds; that's the Registro de la Propiedad. Property descriptions in deeds are based on the Catastro, not the other way round. The Registro de la Propiedad is a register of title (propiedad means ownership), and I wonder whether it couldn't be called Property Title Register. I'm not very happy about calling the Catastro a register for tax purposes; that's not its only function. But the word "survey" probably is a good idea.

Proposed translations

+1
20 mins
Selected

real estate register vs. property register/survey for tax purposes

These are not easy to distinguish, but I am copying below a previous discussion of these institutions, hoping it may prove useful.

SITUACIÓN REGISTRAL Y CATASTRAL:
At least in Spain, this text would involve the status of a single property on two registers, the "Registro de la Propiedad" ("real estate register") on which real property ownership (i.e., "title" to property) as well as other rights in real estate are registered, and the "Catastro", which is a register of real estate values for tax purposes. I purposely don't use "cadastral register" or "cadaster", etc., and prefer the descriptive translation "property tax register" or (the admittedly wordy) "property register for tax purposes," because I believe that "cadastral register" or "cadaster" may not be understood by general audiences in many English-speaking jurisdictions.

Another option:
You may rightly object to the use of the term "register" for the "catastro", since it is really a database containing a survey and valuation of real estate for tax purposes. In that case you might translate your text as "status on the real estate (or) real property register and property tax valuation survey." In Spain, and in many South American countries the "Registro de la Propiedad" is a separate entity from the "Catastro," but the "referencia catastral" of a property must be included in the entry for a given property on the "Registro de la Propiedad" to facilitate its identification.

I hope some of this info proves useful. Here are some definitions:

REGISTRO DE LA PROPIEDAD--Es el organismo estatal encargado de la función pública de proclamar oficialmente las situaciones jurídicas que afectan a los bienes inmuebles en un momento determinado. Por ello, el objeto de dicho registro es la inscripción o anotación de los actos y contratos relativos al dominio y demás derechos reales sobre inmuebles (registración). En el Registro, pues, se inmatriculan fincas, se inscriben títulos y se publican derechos. El Registrador de la Propiedad, jefe técnico superior del registro, examina los títulos inscribibles y decide sobre su admisión en el mismo. Existe un solo Registro con multiplicidad de oficinas, distribuidas según la demarcación registral que generalmente coincide con la de partidos judiciales.

CATASTRO--Es la estadística de la propiedad inmobiliaria. Su objeto es dar a conocer la propiedad y sus cualidades, así como las fincas, su situación y productos de las mismas. Mediante los datos suministrados por el catastro, cobran virtualidad auténtica una serie de normas civiles, administrativas y, especialmente, fiscales. En este sentido, el catastro es la base para la imposición de la contribución territorial. Los servicios correspondientes al catastro se integran en el Instituto Geográfico y Catastral. La formación del catastro comprende varias etapas: trabajos topográficos, valoración, y conservación y rectificación progresiva de los anteriores. En las primeras etapas, se obtiene el denominado avance catastral, previo al definitivo.

(Definitions are from "Diccionario de Derecho", Editorial Bosch (Barcelona), 2004

https://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish_to_english/law_contracts/...


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Note added at 2 hrs (2017-11-24 08:15:05 GMT)
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The main (and original) purpose of the “Catastro” in Spain is to determine the value of real estate (“valor catastral”) on which property taxes are based. As the Catastro website indicates, “La finalidad originaria del catastro es de carácter tributario, proporcionando la información necesaria para la gestión, recaudación y control de diversas figuras impositivas por las Administraciones estatal, autonómica y local. A estos efectos, el Catastro facilita el censo de bienes inmuebles, su titularidad, así como el valor catastral que es un valor administrativo que corresponde a cada inmueble y que permite determinar la capacidad económica de su titular.” (http://www.catastro.minhap.gob.es/esp/usos_utilidades.asp)

Although the “Catastro” contains other data, its main purpose (and certainly its greatest impact on Spanish citizens) is the fact that it appraises the value of the property that it surveys, and that appraisal is used to calculate property taxes. Here in Spain, when you periodically receive an updated “valor catastral” for your property (apartment, house, etc.) in the mail, you know your property taxes are going up!

In contrast, the US Federal Government’s Bureau of Land Management’s cadastral surveys are not used for tax purposes, but rather property values are assessed and property taxes are levied at the local and state levels. Indeed, in the US cadastral surveys are only conducted on public lands, not privately-held property which is the main source of property tax revenue: “…cadastral surveys create, define, mark, and re-establish the boundaries and subdivisions of the public lands of the United States.” https://www.blm.gov/programs/lands-and-realty/cadastral-surv...

Based on the above, I believe that an accurate translation of “Catastro” must somehow indicate that it is a “register (or) survey for tax purposes,” since that is what most specifically distinguishes it from the “Registro de la Propiedad:”

“Diferencia Registro y Catastro: La finalidad del Registro de la Propiedad es un dar publicidad del estado de los bienes inmuebles y dar cuenta de los derechos reales que existan sobre ellos a aquellas personas que tienen un interés legítimo en los mismos. Su cometido, pues, es inscribir los actos que afecten la situación de los bienes inmuebles, sean éstos públicos o privados, dando así seguridad jurídica a los derechos inscritos y facilitando las operaciones jurídicas con los mismos. El Registro de la Propiedad, que es un organismo dependiente del Ministerio de Justicia, se rige, entre otros, por el principio de voluntariedad, de modo que la inscripción de tales derechos, a excepción de las hipotecas, que sí es obligatorio inscribirlas, se produce sólo cuando se solicita expresamente al registro oportuno y se presenta la documentación requerida para acreditar dicho derecho.

El Catastro, en cambio, es un órgano dependiente del Ministerio de Hacienda y su finalidad es también un registro administrativo de los bienes rústicos, urbanos y de características especiales, cuyas funciones son ofrecer información sobre el territorio y, fundamentalmente, la recaudación de impuestos. Es por ello que un bien inmueble debe constar registrado necesariamente en el Catastro, a diferencia del Registro de la Propiedad donde la inscripción, salvo caso de hipoteca, es voluntaria.” https://registropropiedad.derecho.com/q/diferencia-registro-...

Further evidence that the “Catastro” is primarily “for tax purposes” is the fact that, as indicated above, the “Catastro” “es un órgano dependiente del Ministerio de Hacienda,” as is likewise the “Agencia Tributaria” (the Spanish counterpart of the Internal Revenue Service and HM Revenue & Customs).
Note from asker:
Thanks very much for this Rebecca - very helpful indeed!
Peer comment(s):

neutral philgoddard : This is useful, but I think it should be a reference entry, not an answer.
20 mins
Thanks, Phil. These concepts really don't have simple English counterparts. Perhaps you could offer another option, letting us know how you may have translated "catastro" in the past.
neutral AllegroTrans : reference material
4 hrs
agree Toni Castano : With a great delay I arrive at this discussion here and find your explanations as useful as always. (Off the record: Your students are in good hands).
212 days
Thanks, Toni, for your kind comments.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Many thanks Rebecca and to everyone else who contributed."
4 hrs

Cadastral Registry/Cadaster vs. Property Register/Land Registry

Rebecca's references are excellent and I support them

However I see no reason nit to use the term Cadaster in English, since any "localising" doesn't really work as (at least in GB) there is no direct equivalant

Cadastre
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (March 2009) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)
Cadastral map of the village of Pielnia, 1852, Austrian Empire

A cadastre (also spelled cadaster), using a cadastral survey or cadastral map, is a comprehensive register of the real estate or real property's metes-and-bounds of a country.[1]

In most countries, legal systems have developed around the original administrative systems and use the cadastre to define the dimensions and location of land parcels described in legal documentation. The cadastre is a fundamental source of data in disputes and lawsuits between landowners.


cadaster
Also found in: Thesaurus, Legal, Financial, Encyclopedia.
ca·das·tre also ca·das·ter (kə-dăs′tər)
n.
A public register showing details of ownership of the real property in a district, including boundaries and tax assessments.
[French, from Provençal cadastro, from Italian catastro, alteration of Old Italian catastico, from Late Greek katastikhon, register : Greek kata-, by; see cata- + Greek stikhos, line; see steigh- in Indo-European roots.]
ca·das′tral adj.
American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition. Copyright © 2016 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved.



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Note added at 4 hrs (2017-11-24 10:39:37 GMT)
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Also, these are separate registers. In England & Wales, the (rough) equivalent of the cadaster is combined into the Land Registry and is not separate
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