Martina Pokupec (X) Aug 18, 2011:

Thank you, Jenni!

Lisa McCarthy Aug 18, 2011:

@ Jenni Thanks for taking the time and effort to get back to us on this :)

Jenni Lukac (X) Aug 18, 2011:

Sorry so late, but my professor just made a comment about my post. Her favorite answer (for what it's worth) was Lisa's. Although the class forum is usually very active, none of the other students wanted to stick their neck out on this one. As a large number of them are professional editors, their reticence indicates how stick this sort of decision is! In any case, an editor who works with American English agreed with a translator who works with British English. Cheers to all.

Martina Pokupec (X) Jul 19, 2011:

Excellent idea! Thank you, Jenni!

Y. Peraza Jul 19, 2011:

Jenni Yes please do share your "findings" with us! This is getting very interesting indeed!

Regards to all of you,
Yaiza

Jenni Lukac (X) Jul 19, 2011:

I'm taking an advanced copyediting course this summer. This is such an interesting discussion that I'm going to mention it in the class discussion forum. It may be regional, as Charles suggests. Since the professor and the students participating online (or would it be on-line using other criteria) live in different places, they may have different ideas about this and different arguments. If there are any interesting answers, I'll try to post something here, although it will probably be too late to help with this particular question.

Martina Pokupec (X) Jul 19, 2011:

@Lisa I understand that perfectly, and I would use the p. perfect in case I say: I went to the shops but I hadn't planned to buy anything, for example. What confuses me is the Present Simple in the first part of the sentence with which I would never use the past perfect. Anyway, if you say that this is correct, I believe you.

Charles Davis Jul 19, 2011:

I feel that the progressive is quite idiomatic with the verb "plan". For example (I admit this is a different situation): "Are you going to the party?" "Well, I wasn't planning to/I wasn't planning on going".

I have a hunch that there may be a regional difference in usage involved here, and that American English relatively prefers the past simple. I may be quite wrong about that.

Lisa McCarthy Jul 19, 2011:

@ Martina It's not about the actual words I used here, I was explaining the concept, think about it - at the time you bought something (in the past) you didn´t have any prior intention of buying anything (past). i.e you left the house thinking ah, I'll have a look in the shops but I'm not going to buy anything."

Charles Davis Jul 19, 2011:

I'm certainly not saying the past perfect is incorrect, but I really think the progressive is better here (obviously, since that's my answer!). It's negative, therefore no planning had taken place; there is no prior action. You were, so to speak, in a state of not having planned to do it. As for generalising the timeframe, the past progressive does not in practice refer only to past time in this context; it simply implies that the lack of planning is previous to the buying. And I don't agree at all that the past progressive creates a heavy effect. It sounds entirely natural and fluent to my ear, and the couple of examples I quoted in my answer are designed to illustrate that.
On the contrary, as I repeat "had not planned to buy" to myself, I find it over-formal, even stilted. But that's just a personal reaction.

Martina Pokupec (X) Jul 19, 2011:

I agree that past progressive might refer to a specific situation and does not fit with the context of frequency here, but again past perfect seems odd to me here. This is actually why I asked, because I wanted to get an answer from an English native (maybe things have changed from the time I learned grammar :)). After all the explanations, however, I still think that Past simple or progressive are better here than past perfect. Even in your example Lisa, in order for past perfect to fit in here, we would have to say: ...you went to the centre and **had had no intention of buying**.. I don't know. It is actually very difficult for a non-native speaker to learn new grammar rules, once your head is filled with the "old ones". Anyway, I'm going to take this as a new grammar lesson and hopefully use these kind of structures in the future. Thank you

Lisa McCarthy Jul 19, 2011:

I agree with Yaiza's explanation At the time you went to the centre you **had no intention of buying** something, but then **you bought** something. Both states are in the past and the past perfect is correct here. Speaking as a native English speaker (UK English) and former English teacher.

Y. Peraza Jul 19, 2011:

Hum... But the Present in the sentence includes also the Past and the Future. It's a way to undefine and thus generalise the timeframe of the action.
Also, Progressive would be too heavy in such a sentence, in my opinion.

Martina Pokupec (X) Jul 19, 2011:

I understand that part however, the Present tense is used in the first part of the sentence "Do you often..", hence my question. I think that the past progressive is the best solution

Y. Peraza Jul 19, 2011:

Martina I think Past Perfect here reflects the fact that the planning process takes place before an action in the past: first you planned (or didn't plan), then you bought. Because both actions are past, you need a Past Perfect.
Native English speakers, agree?

Jenni Lukac (X) Jul 18, 2011:

I agree with Lisa here. It worked in both US and UK English.

Martina Pokupec (X) Jul 18, 2011:

why why use Past Perfect in this case? Thank you for your answers in advance

Lisa McCarthy Jul 18, 2011:

@ Eugenio I think your translation is fine too, apart from the grammar. I might also use the contracted form here too.

"Do you often buy things/products you hadn't planned to buy?"

Y. Peraza Jul 18, 2011:

Tu traducción es adecuada. Aunque yo cambiaría un poco:
Do you often buy items you had not planned to buy?