| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Poll: Who is the boss? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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Thayenga 
Germany
Local time: 07:29
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
Among equal partners there is no boss.
| | | | Mario Chavez (X)
Local time: 01:29
English to Spanish
+ ...
| Fellow stunned colleague here | Nov 9, 2016 |
Kristina Cosumano wrote: Catherine De Crignis wrote:
Mind you, this probably is a good question, since I'm totally dismayed at the number of people who answered "the client" or "other", so far.
Well, I did, but 1) I was thinking specifically about when clients want a certain word or a certain way, and 2) I am still a bit stunned by the US election results and did not think clearly through the aspects of the question.
I'm stunned too, and I'm a white educated American. Logic went out the window.
| | | | Mario Chavez (X)
Local time: 01:29
English to Spanish
+ ...
Thayenga wrote: Among equal partners there is no boss.
It's an ideal, a nice sentiment to consider a client an equal partner, but it doesn't jibe with the real world situations I've seen.
Naturally, the client isn't always right, particularly when it comes to intuiting the end user's needs and catering to them.
Come to think of it, not even the people is always right. Look at our elections!
| | | | Odile Breuvart
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:29
Member
English to French
+ ...
| Very relative question | Nov 9, 2016 |
I voted I was the boss as a translator even though I am aware we are nothing without the client.
My reason for being emphatic is because we are amongst ourselves and for once I wanted to make a point about being respected as a translator.
In many aspects, machines or automated processes take over and clients think they are entitled to rule the roost in terms of translation processes. Take the SDL project package files for example, most of the time they delay my own translating proces... See more I voted I was the boss as a translator even though I am aware we are nothing without the client.
My reason for being emphatic is because we are amongst ourselves and for once I wanted to make a point about being respected as a translator.
In many aspects, machines or automated processes take over and clients think they are entitled to rule the roost in terms of translation processes. Take the SDL project package files for example, most of the time they delay my own translating process as the power to organise translation is taken away from me.
What matters are results and it would help if the client did not behave at times like autocrats.
The client and the translator are collaborating, that is how I view things. ▲ Collapse
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| I run my own company... | Nov 9, 2016 |
I'm the boss!
| | | | Gudrun Maydorn (X)
Germany
Local time: 07:29
English to German
+ ...
| Cooperation is key | Nov 9, 2016 |
John Cutler wrote:
If I accept the client's conditions for a certain job then they're the boss. As they say in Catalan, "Qui paga mana" (The one who's paying is the one giving the orders).
A working relationship shouldn't just be reduced to the money aspect.
Imagine a man wants to build a house. In many countries he would need the skills of an architect to draw up the plans and obtain a building permit. The man who pays the architect isn't the boss, he cannot override the rules and regulations or the forces of gravity. Neither is the architect the boss, because he cannot design the house unless he receives a sufficient amount of imput from the man. Communication and cooperation are key.
I consider tanslators as the architects who help to "build a text" in a foreign language.
[Bearbeitet am 2016-11-09 12:46 GMT]
| | | | Mario Freitas
Brazil
Local time: 02:29
Member (2014)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
| The client is NOT your boss! | Nov 9, 2016 |
As freelancers, we have no boss. This is one of the greatest advantages of being a FREElancer.
We are hired by a client or agency at contract level, which means there are two parties in the agreement, absolutely identical and in the same level. Terms and conditions are negotiated and agreed upon, not imposed by either party. Any party may terminate the agreement at any time, with no penalties to either side. Each PO is agreed upon in advance, and may be refused by the translator. Wh... See more As freelancers, we have no boss. This is one of the greatest advantages of being a FREElancer.
We are hired by a client or agency at contract level, which means there are two parties in the agreement, absolutely identical and in the same level. Terms and conditions are negotiated and agreed upon, not imposed by either party. Any party may terminate the agreement at any time, with no penalties to either side. Each PO is agreed upon in advance, and may be refused by the translator. Where do you possibly see a boss in this relationship?
I'm amazed that the majority voted the client as their boss. I'm certainly not part of that category. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | For the record... | Nov 9, 2016 |
ProZ added the "other" option. I wanted a straight choice between the two options. None of this namby pamby fence sitting!!
The correct answer, I can now reveal, is the translator, of course. Congratulations to the one in five.
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| Other> Bruce Springsteen | Nov 9, 2016 |
Here it is the Boss, of course
| | | | Mario Chavez (X)
Local time: 01:29
English to Spanish
+ ...
| We needed a third candidate | Nov 9, 2016 |
Chris S wrote:
ProZ added the "other" option. I wanted a straight choice between the two options. None of this namby pamby fence sitting!!
The correct answer, I can now reveal, is the translator, of course. Congratulations to the one in five.
Sorry, but at election time, two options are never enough.
| | | | Nigel Greenwood (X)
Spain
Local time: 07:29
Spanish to English
+ ...
| The one who knows best... | Nov 9, 2016 |
We translators are experts in our own field and usually we have deeply studied a sector and location and therefore we are not only experts in our languages, but also experts in the subject matter and in localisation. Not to mention, business management, accounting, taxes, etc., etc.
Have a great day, or what's left of it.
Nigel
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 06:29
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| The categories were wrong | Nov 9, 2016 |
It should have read
Who's the boss
1) the translator
2) the employer
Any freelancer who thinks the client is their boss is really an employee with absolutely no job security, no paid sick leave and no paid holidays.
Just spend a few moments thinking of any business whose services you buy: IT techies; estate agents; builders; accountants ... Do you think you, their client, are also their boss?
I'm really starting to despair now. People ever... See more It should have read
Who's the boss
1) the translator
2) the employer
Any freelancer who thinks the client is their boss is really an employee with absolutely no job security, no paid sick leave and no paid holidays.
Just spend a few moments thinking of any business whose services you buy: IT techies; estate agents; builders; accountants ... Do you think you, their client, are also their boss?
I'm really starting to despair now. People everywhere seem to stop thinking before they start voting. ▲ Collapse
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| You nailed it! | Nov 9, 2016 |
Sheila Wilson wrote:
Any freelancer who thinks the client is their boss is really an employee with absolutely no job security, no paid sick leave and no paid holidays.
Just spend a few moments thinking of any business whose services you buy: IT techies; estate agents; builders; accountants ... Do you think you, their client, are also their boss?
I'm really starting to despair now. People everywhere seem to stop thinking before they start voting.
As the "client is boss" option won by an overwhelming majority, this explains why groveling rates are so frequently offered, and why so many translators spend most of their working years moaning about low rates.
I - as a translator - have been educating clients on the different job options for years. It's a one-sided approach. I guess no client ever bothered to educate translators - especially the cheap ones - that they should be in full command of the work they do.
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Angie Garbarino wrote: Here it is the Boss, of course
Lolz
Mario Chavez wrote:
Sorry, but at election time, two options are never enough.
More lolz
Michael Harris wrote:
Is this poll the reward for renewing your membership?
It would appear so. I only suggested it yesterday!
| | | | Erzsébet Czopyk
Hungary
Local time: 07:29
Member (2006)
Russian to Hungarian
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER
I congratulate all who is so self-confident but as we learned today from the Clinton vs. Trump elections, sometimes choosing the 'right one' is very hard.
When I became an entreprenur for more than a decade ago, I had a choice. The market seemed stabile and I was full of hope in the future.
Colleagues:
Nowadays I see a river of so-called translators and so-called colleagues who are entrepreneurs themselves and ready to throw anyone a piece/part of their work if they hav... See more I congratulate all who is so self-confident but as we learned today from the Clinton vs. Trump elections, sometimes choosing the 'right one' is very hard.
When I became an entreprenur for more than a decade ago, I had a choice. The market seemed stabile and I was full of hope in the future.
Colleagues:
Nowadays I see a river of so-called translators and so-called colleagues who are entrepreneurs themselves and ready to throw anyone a piece/part of their work if they have any "leftovers", just having 0.01 EUR extra on it. This is the sad reality in my country! I just had a phone call that my one of my fellow collegues became sick, someone has to replace him in the court but, as he added "I expect you to give me 5% of this", wooow!
Is that something I shall name as professional?
Clients:
Ready to hire anyone. Really. Just anyone who can just read in English (insert any other foreign language you like).
Secretaries are forced on the workplace tp translate official documents to save SOME money the their work is forwarded for "proofreading" and only God knows sometimes...
If official document, "we just need a stamp."
Just to be cheap. No one needs quality.
If you offer quality, they go to the next corner, because there are cheaper for one cent. Is that what we call f*** the running dog for one cent.
Translators from the neighbouring countries flew here with lack of knowledge of the Hungarian language but they offering the service for low price because they do not pay VAT and they are taxed home under more advantageous taxation system.
The most excellent translators (my clleagues) already left and relocated to UK, Ireland, Germany, Austria, Russia, wherever, just not here.
We are humiliated by our own government, giving the right to certify the translations to a single, government-owned agency (OFFI).
A well-know agency in the public procurement falsificated the signatures of the sworn translators - a case is still ongoing after 4 years...
Thanks to our taxation system, the youngsters left at first, after them leaving their parents and nowadays they returning back from the countries listed above and taking with the grandparents!
My Hungarian clients ordering translations not here but in the neighbouring countries and they pay my services only if they need certification plus/or an apostille.
The last two months was a continuous fight for survival and I think I may say I am free because I have no other boss just the God only, but it also means I can die of hunger freely if I do not work!
And if I have no bread, the self-confidence does not helps!
Because I have to feed my children.
And until I see 0.04 jobs very often on the ProZ.com and clients tell me that 0.07 EUR per source word is irreal and high and those jobs also fulfilled by someone - what we talking about? What you talking me about?
Job offer was announced here for telephone interpreting for 0.15 cent from a leading UK agency:
"Thank you for your email and the CV. I’m sending you further information to make it clear what you can expect when joining *** (leading agency name) as Freelance telephone interpreter..
As you know I am looking to recruit Hungarians who live in Hungary and who are interested in working as telephone interpreters; Eng Hun.
We are offering a rate of 0.15 euro per minute. We expect a high level of demand and plenty of work for those who come on board. You will need a land line."
0.15 eur per minute is 9 EUR per hour minus I pay for the phone the monthly base. Is that I learned for? Is that I aimed for?
Today I became so mad that I asked a client to leave. I was fed up with his bargaining and told him I will better take care about anyone's home, washing the dishes and teaching the children than do a certified translation for such price!
Becoming a translator and sitting in the university, spending years in Russia and Latvia was a clear waste of time!
Today's good quote here on ProZ.com for LV-HU is 0.06 and for EN-HU is 0.05 or even lower!
(And I am not ready for tricks like 5 pages of sample translation!)
And I do not want to continue this miserable existence - so, if you have 10 square meters to live and you looking for a cheap slave, go ahead and give a call - I am free! Translation, interpreting, teaching the children, dishwashing, floor cleaning, office maintaining, coffee making and serving you on a plate, I offer 10 hours of work, which is in comparison with my work today is relaxing!!! - no relocation package is needed, I still do have some savings to buy a ticket.
11 years and in the last two-three years up to 12 hours of work per day.
And it will even worse.
This year 10-11 cases of totally unpaid bills without any reasoning, just... just... just because the boss of the company decided not to pay! No complaints regarding the quality, the job was delivered in time, but the payments delayed for months! And the taxes and the electricity bills and other bills are coming in time.
Mr. Cutler wrote: "As they say in Catalan, "Qui paga mana" (The one who's paying is the one giving the orders)."
In Hungarian it sounds like "The one who's paying is the musician is the one giving the order what to play".
No money - no music.
OK... but what we will eat for dinner?
In addition: the situation in Ukraine/Russia is even worse, I know the rates from my colleagues. So please some of you really could take off your rose-colored glasses for a moment and not judging the others. I am not envy of anyone's succesful business and I am still not in minus and have no single cent of tax or other debts but I realize that I have to work with double "power" and I am close to 50 so not a rose bunny from Duracell-ad with endless power anymore.
In Hungary even the Association of Hungarian Translators and Interpreters has less than 200 members. We have no Chamber, the association has not any real power or influence, anyone can call him/herself as a translator because except the courts (and I have seen in fact, that even the courts do not control) no one asks for your degree or certificate UNTIL THE FIRST PROBLEM. People come to real professionals only when they are really in trouble.
You can shout: hire meeeeee! I am professional? And ...who cares here?
Partnership? Haha. Hahahahaha.
Collaboration?
Quote!
If your quote is the cheapest, 0.05; we still offer you 0.045
We do not show you what to translate - just give a quote!
We offered you general translation and sending you instead of a complex technical text for the same price!
You send us the work and issue an invoice. We will not pay it in time. We can't pay it now because... the sun is shining, we are on vacation, the boss is on vacation, the financial manager is in the USA, the secretary is sick and vwe are busy to respond your emails, hire a lawyer. It also costs money.
We offered you interpreting but you can also carry the luggage of my wife from to store to the hotel - the translator shall be useful.
It was the point when I told straight on the street, you hired me as your translator but if I need to carry your luggage, I am not. I can help you to carry some things but it is not an option to interpret for you via your mobile in the elevator, holding your luggage then run after you in the lobby.
Clients treating us like slaves and in reality, we are slaves. At least HERE we are. And we are slaves to the big agencies, too. Yes, to your agencies, my distinguished colleagues, in your countries with fantastic BB entries.
Brexit?
Soon comes the time when we become unwanted in the UK, then we will unwanted in other countries, in particular, Austria is fed up with the river of Hungarians. Germany? Back to Russia? Now I need a visa plus a letter of invitation even to visit.
Visa to US? I think I will never allowed to return to California and it remains only in my memories. ( I had an invitation and I returned home in time, if you think I am not.) The ticket itself is around 1000 euros. Plus visa costs.
Net 8 HUF per source word - it is the minimum payment per source word, "no match", recommended by Proford, association of the biggest and richest Hungarian agencies, and signed 2 years ago by the president of the Association of Hungarian Translators and Interpreters.
net 8 HUF is 0.03 EUR or, today is 0.025
So what? And who cares?
PLEASE show me ONE agency in my country who will pay for my work 2 HUF+VAT per char (27% in Hungary - this is what killed the market) or equivalent in EUR or show me an agency who need a capable project manager willing to relocate within a week.
Dream salary? If I would have 250 000 HUF salary which is 818,54 EUR net by today's HUF/EUR exchange rate of the Hungarian National Bank, see http://www.mnb.hu/ , I stay here. It would give me no rich but normal life. To relocate to Austria, you need minimum salary of 1500 EUR net - otherwise in the end of the month, considering the flat rent rates, you left with nothing.
To relocate to the Isle of Man (it was my dream I worked for) you need at least 5000 EUR savings because with no history in the UK and a fresh NI number you need minimum two months deposit plus you do not receive a work permit. I had this. I have all my papers translated, apostilled, stamped, I have zero tax certificate (no tax debt), valid NI number, fresh clean criminal certificate translated plus apostilled valid until 2nd of December.
A closing date to leave. Less than a month left. Yes, I am in panic.
I wanted to do that, really. I learned English each day. I know and love the island very well - but to live on the island, you need a thing I still do not have - a work permit.
To relocate... where to relocate? Anyway I still do have here a flat to maintain and two students. My oldest son has a good job and my second son is already abroad.
Last year I came back from the UK and my mother suddenly died, leaving after a huge debt. I paid this. Now I do have an empty countryhouse with all white goods and amenities, 300 km from Budapest with local tax etc. for sale. No one wants to buy it, no one wants to live there, there is no work in the small town. But I received a local tax bill just now - and extra EUR 60 minus this month.
I read yesterday an article that nowadays the people in their 40-50's do not save money for the future.
How many arms should I have? And the day is still consist of 24 hours and sometimes I work with 2-3 hours of sleep.
So this is MY reality. I can count the very few clients who pay me 0.07 EUR per source word - none of them is Hungarian.
Nest week I go to Vienna - still commutable within 3,5 hours by train.
The chance is not Clinton vs. Trump - sometimes you can fall between.
[Edited at 2016-11-09 23:07 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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