French term
Dans la mesure où
I'm well aware of what this usually means, but I have a sentence where it really stumps me. It's an addendum to a contract I haven't translated, which makes it even worse. The full sentence is:
Les paragraphes 1 et 2 ne sont pas applicables dans la mesure où dès acceptation par les deux parties de l’objet de la mission et de ses conditions, l'Entreprise mobilisera les ressources nécessaires à la réalisation du contrat et compte tenu des conditions des paragraphes 4 et 5.
Thanks!
Nick
Non-PRO (2): GILLES MEUNIER, Yvonne Gallagher
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Proposed translations
insofar
agree |
Hugues Roumier
: Insofar as is also possible, yes
2 mins
|
Gracias Hugues!
|
|
agree |
Francois Boye
: Insofar AS
15 mins
|
Gracias Francois!
|
|
agree |
Neil Crockford
: Insofar as... looks right to me
49 mins
|
Gracias Neil!
|
|
agree |
writeaway
: As I suggested earlier in the discussion box
1 hr
|
Gracias writeaway!
|
|
agree |
EirTranslations
1 hr
|
Gracias Eir!
|
|
agree |
Tony M
: Yes, for once, the dictionary term actually works — though I don't think this is the most elegant way of expressing it in EN.
2 hrs
|
Gracias Tony!
|
|
agree |
Paulina Sobelman
3 hrs
|
Gracias Paulina!
|
|
neutral |
AllegroTrans
: This isn't entirely wrong but it's not a clear way of expressing a condition
4 hrs
|
agree |
Angus Stewart
5 hrs
|
Gracias Andus!
|
|
agree |
Saro Nova
: ditto the comments above
18 hrs
|
neutral |
Yvonne Gallagher
: your "explanation" is meaningless. Don't see how this works here to express condition
20 hrs
|
agree |
Simon Charass
1 day 1 hr
|
Gracias Simon!
|
|
neutral |
ormiston
: Everyone loves this but how do you all propose to continue? I still feel the addendum points ou that that they DO not apply rather than WILL not (if...?)
1 day 3 hrs
|
given that
disagree |
Tony M
: I think this changes the meaning here, which is really 'IF it is given that...'
12 mins
|
In that case, perhaps 'in the event that'?
|
|
agree |
ormiston
: I think your initial reading is right. The following "dès" covers the idea of "given that once..."
39 mins
|
agree |
Hugues Roumier
: Yes! "Dans la mesure où" can definitely mean "given that" , in certain context
54 mins
|
disagree |
Daryo
: you assume a wrong logical link between the two parts of the sentence => no chances that this could work HERE - which is what counts for the purpose of this question , in whichever way you try to reshuffle the sentence.
5 hrs
|
disagree |
AllegroTrans
: A condition is expressed in the source text, I cannot see how your answer conveys that
5 hrs
|
as long as ..
provided that
agree |
philgoddard
41 mins
|
Thanks!
|
|
agree |
Paulina Sobelman
3 hrs
|
agree |
Daryo
: of course there IS a condition expressed in this sentence // correction: Sections 1 and 2 WILL NOT BE applicable ..IF.. what follows is done
4 hrs
|
neutral |
writeaway
: provided that is too strong. it's not meant as that sort of condition
4 hrs
|
agree |
AllegroTrans
5 hrs
|
agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
20 hrs
|
provided (that)
Of course, this is assuming they are taking about something that is to happen in the future: « ...l'Entreprise mobilisera... »; where it is referring to some existing condition that has already been met, then the more usual 'inasmuch as' would be applicable
agree |
Paulina Sobelman
3 hrs
|
Thanks, Paulina!
|
|
agree |
Daryo
: only bit that puzzles me -"provided that" introduces a condition, so why do you say there isn't anything conditional in this sentence??
4 hrs
|
Thanks, Daryo! I certainly wasn't the one to say there was nothing conditional... quite the reverse, in fact!
|
|
agree |
AllegroTrans
4 hrs
|
Thanks, C!
|
|
agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
20 hrs
|
Thanks, Yvonne!
|
provided [that], regarding
disagree |
Tony M
: 'regarding' would make no sense at all in the given context? 'Providing' had already been suggested twice before you posted.
1 hr
|
disagree |
Daryo
: no ways that "regarding" could make sense for this sentence.
3 hrs
|
disagree |
AllegroTrans
: "regarding" isn't even a synonym for "provided (that)" and clearly does not make any sense here
3 hrs
|
disagree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: "provided that" already proposed twice and "regarding" is wrong here
19 hrs
|
in as much as
agree |
Paulina Sobelman
49 mins
|
neutral |
writeaway
: I don't agree with inasmuch as followed by a future tense
1 hr
|
disagree |
AllegroTrans
: A condition is expressed in the source text, I cannot see how your answer conveys that
2 hrs
|
Discussion
The fundamental problem / nasty trap with machine translation, outdated or latest version, is not that the MT is always wrong, or clumsy. It's not.
You will get more or less often perfectly usable "translations" **of short fragments**- even sometimes exactly what you would use. That doesn't make MT in any way better than or a replacement for a professional translator.
The real problem is that at times MT will get it hopelessly wrong, and if you are unlucky the proposed "translation" will sound perfectly acceptable (in the sense of "nicely said", as opposed to being obvious gibberish)
THEN it can turn really nasty - if you don't have a way of comparing with the ST (you don't have it or you don't understand the language of the ST) - you could easily assume that the "nicely flowing" but wrong and useless part is as good as the "good" parts. And if you are really really unlucky - the hopelessly/farcically/ ... wrong but convincingly sounding "translation" will be the translation of the key point of the whole text! And if that happens, just these few wrong words will make ten / hundred times more damage than any "saving" made by using MT
But here it's crystal clear and for the purpose of translating this sentence there is no need whatsoever to know any specifics about what's in "paragraphes 1 et 2", nor what are exactly "les conditions des paragraphes 4 et 5."
The sentence could be rearranged this way, and would have exactly the same meaning
SI
dès acceptation par les deux parties de l’objet de la mission et de ses conditions, l'Entreprise mobilise les ressources nécessaires à la réalisation du contrat et compte tenu (/ selon) des conditions des paragraphes 4 et 5.
ALORS
Les paragraphes 1 et 2 ne seront pas applicables
En fait dans cette phrase, je suis pour ma part à peu près sûr que cela signifie l'équivalent de "étant donné". Mais n'étant pas natif anglophone, je m'abstiens de répondre directement. Toutefois, ceci ne signifie pas "provided that", j'en suis sûr.