May 12, 2020 13:28
4 yrs ago
88 viewers *
French term

Dans la mesure où

French to English Law/Patents Law (general)
Hi everyone,

I'm well aware of what this usually means, but I have a sentence where it really stumps me. It's an addendum to a contract I haven't translated, which makes it even worse. The full sentence is:

Les paragraphes 1 et 2 ne sont pas applicables dans la mesure où dès acceptation par les deux parties de l’objet de la mission et de ses conditions, l'Entreprise mobilisera les ressources nécessaires à la réalisation du contrat et compte tenu des conditions des paragraphes 4 et 5.

Thanks!
Nick
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (2): GILLES MEUNIER, Yvonne Gallagher

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Discussion

Daryo May 12, 2020:
@ writeaway There is nothing "embarrassing" there.

The fundamental problem / nasty trap with machine translation, outdated or latest version, is not that the MT is always wrong, or clumsy. It's not.

You will get more or less often perfectly usable "translations" **of short fragments**- even sometimes exactly what you would use. That doesn't make MT in any way better than or a replacement for a professional translator.

The real problem is that at times MT will get it hopelessly wrong, and if you are unlucky the proposed "translation" will sound perfectly acceptable (in the sense of "nicely said", as opposed to being obvious gibberish)

THEN it can turn really nasty - if you don't have a way of comparing with the ST (you don't have it or you don't understand the language of the ST) - you could easily assume that the "nicely flowing" but wrong and useless part is as good as the "good" parts. And if you are really really unlucky - the hopelessly/farcically/ ... wrong but convincingly sounding "translation" will be the translation of the key point of the whole text! And if that happens, just these few wrong words will make ten / hundred times more damage than any "saving" made by using MT
Daryo May 12, 2020:
I'm the first to ask for more context if there are any doubts that the "obvious" meaning could be wrong for the specific ST.

But here it's crystal clear and for the purpose of translating this sentence there is no need whatsoever to know any specifics about what's in "paragraphes 1 et 2", nor what are exactly "les conditions des paragraphes 4 et 5."

The sentence could be rearranged this way, and would have exactly the same meaning

SI
dès acceptation par les deux parties de l’objet de la mission et de ses conditions, l'Entreprise mobilise les ressources nécessaires à la réalisation du contrat et compte tenu (/ selon) des conditions des paragraphes 4 et 5.
ALORS
Les paragraphes 1 et 2 ne seront pas applicables
Catherine Earle May 12, 2020:
Can you give us a short summary of the content of paragraphs 1/2 and of paragraphs 4/5?
writeaway May 12, 2020:
I would be tempted by insofar as, which embarrassingly enough is also what DeepL suggests. I checked out of curiosity. But it's what I'd use.
Hugues Roumier May 12, 2020:
since or given that "since" and "given that" could be used here, I'm pretty sure.
En fait dans cette phrase, je suis pour ma part à peu près sûr que cela signifie l'équivalent de "étant donné". Mais n'étant pas natif anglophone, je m'abstiens de répondre directement. Toutefois, ceci ne signifie pas "provided that", j'en suis sûr.
writeaway May 12, 2020:
Which translation(s) have you already rejected?

Proposed translations

+10
1 hr
Selected

insofar

...requirements of the applicable implementing measure, insofar as those requirements .
Peer comment(s):

agree Hugues Roumier : Insofar as is also possible, yes
2 mins
Gracias Hugues!
agree Francois Boye : Insofar AS
15 mins
Gracias Francois!
agree Neil Crockford : Insofar as... looks right to me
49 mins
Gracias Neil!
agree writeaway : As I suggested earlier in the discussion box
1 hr
Gracias writeaway!
agree EirTranslations
1 hr
Gracias Eir!
agree Tony M : Yes, for once, the dictionary term actually works — though I don't think this is the most elegant way of expressing it in EN.
2 hrs
Gracias Tony!
agree Paulina Sobelman
3 hrs
Gracias Paulina!
neutral AllegroTrans : This isn't entirely wrong but it's not a clear way of expressing a condition
4 hrs
agree Angus Stewart
5 hrs
Gracias Andus!
agree Saro Nova : ditto the comments above
18 hrs
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : your "explanation" is meaningless. Don't see how this works here to express condition
20 hrs
agree Simon Charass
1 day 1 hr
Gracias Simon!
neutral ormiston : Everyone loves this but how do you all propose to continue? I still feel the addendum points ou that that they DO not apply rather than WILL not (if...?)
1 day 3 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
-1
11 mins

given that

It would obviously be better to have access to the contract to be sure of the meaning but I think this makes sense.
Peer comment(s):

disagree Tony M : I think this changes the meaning here, which is really 'IF it is given that...'
12 mins
In that case, perhaps 'in the event that'?
agree ormiston : I think your initial reading is right. The following "dès" covers the idea of "given that once..."
39 mins
agree Hugues Roumier : Yes! "Dans la mesure où" can definitely mean "given that" , in certain context
54 mins
disagree Daryo : you assume a wrong logical link between the two parts of the sentence => no chances that this could work HERE - which is what counts for the purpose of this question , in whichever way you try to reshuffle the sentence.
5 hrs
disagree AllegroTrans : A condition is expressed in the source text, I cannot see how your answer conveys that
5 hrs
Something went wrong...
+3
16 mins

as long as ..

more background would be helpful
Peer comment(s):

agree Tony M
3 hrs
agree Paulina Sobelman
4 hrs
agree Daryo
4 hrs
Something went wrong...
+5
26 mins

provided that

Sections 1 and 2 are applicable...provided that, after the provisions have been accepted by both parties...., the Company does this and that...
Peer comment(s):

agree philgoddard
41 mins
Thanks!
agree Paulina Sobelman
3 hrs
agree Daryo : of course there IS a condition expressed in this sentence // correction: Sections 1 and 2 WILL NOT BE applicable ..IF.. what follows is done
4 hrs
neutral writeaway : provided that is too strong. it's not meant as that sort of condition
4 hrs
agree AllegroTrans
5 hrs
agree Yvonne Gallagher
20 hrs
Something went wrong...
+4
28 mins

provided (that)

Although this is perhaps an unconventional translation, I believe it is the intended sense here — and I have come across this usage quite often.

Of course, this is assuming they are taking about something that is to happen in the future: « ...l'Entreprise mobilisera... »; where it is referring to some existing condition that has already been met, then the more usual 'inasmuch as' would be applicable
Peer comment(s):

agree Paulina Sobelman
3 hrs
Thanks, Paulina!
agree Daryo : only bit that puzzles me -"provided that" introduces a condition, so why do you say there isn't anything conditional in this sentence??
4 hrs
Thanks, Daryo! I certainly wasn't the one to say there was nothing conditional... quite the reverse, in fact!
agree AllegroTrans
4 hrs
Thanks, C!
agree Yvonne Gallagher
20 hrs
Thanks, Yvonne!
Something went wrong...
-4
1 hr

provided [that], regarding

may both terms above but personally i prefer regarding
Peer comment(s):

disagree Tony M : 'regarding' would make no sense at all in the given context? 'Providing' had already been suggested twice before you posted.
1 hr
disagree Daryo : no ways that "regarding" could make sense for this sentence.
3 hrs
disagree AllegroTrans : "regarding" isn't even a synonym for "provided (that)" and clearly does not make any sense here
3 hrs
disagree Yvonne Gallagher : "provided that" already proposed twice and "regarding" is wrong here
19 hrs
Something went wrong...
3 hrs

in as much as

Falls in line with the sense of the statement especially with the use of 'dès acceptation'
Peer comment(s):

agree Paulina Sobelman
49 mins
neutral writeaway : I don't agree with inasmuch as followed by a future tense
1 hr
disagree AllegroTrans : A condition is expressed in the source text, I cannot see how your answer conveys that
2 hrs
Something went wrong...
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