May 18, 2015 08:49
9 yrs ago
Russian term
Russian Federation
Proficiency in medicine and science
Native in: Russian 
Works in: English to Russian, Russian to English, German to Russian
чтет уголовный кодекc
Russian to English
Art/Literary
Other
I'm translating short description of jury members of an advertising competition. Some of it goes: "Искренне болеет за ФК «Барселона» и чтет уголовный кодекс, а ещё склонен к самоанализу."
The client wants the allusion to Ostap Bender's from The Little Golden Calf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Golden_Calf) to be somehow preserved but in such a way that "it would show the extraordinary character of the jury member" (the whole phrase from the book is: "Я, конечно, не херувим. У меня нет крыльев, но я чту Уголовный кодекс. Это моя слабость").
Perhaps you could come up with some similar quotes in English that satirically describe a person in a good sense and are recognizable.
Thank you!
The client wants the allusion to Ostap Bender's from The Little Golden Calf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Golden_Calf) to be somehow preserved but in such a way that "it would show the extraordinary character of the jury member" (the whole phrase from the book is: "Я, конечно, не херувим. У меня нет крыльев, но я чту Уголовный кодекс. Это моя слабость").
Perhaps you could come up with some similar quotes in English that satirically describe a person in a good sense and are recognizable.
Thank you!
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
+1
52 mins
Selected
a free and lawful man of the neighbourhood
"Twelve free and lawful men of the neighbourhood" -- старинное легалисткое (законодательное) определение присяжных. которое известно со времен короля английского Генриха II, достаточно хорошо известно не только юристам (в т.ч. американским), но и публике читающей детективы, смотрящей Perry Mason court room dramas etc. Это, ИМХО, как раз то, что вам нужно, поскольку передаёт нужный смысл, имеет отношение к жюри, с уголовным подтекстом; где с юмором используется старинная помпезная формула.
Note from asker:
| Очень интересно, спасибо! |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Oleg Lozinskiy
: +100
6 mins
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|
Thanks man. ;-)
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| neutral |
Lazyt3ch
: Не совсем понял, при чем тут жюри присяжных. Речь вроде идет о рекламном конкурсе, членов жюри которого набирают совсем по другому принципу. :)
P.S. Представим себе на минуту, что речь идет, скажем, о членах жюри КВН.
19 hrs
|
| neutral |
Jack Doughty
: "Twelve good men and true" is much better known.
5 days
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you, Evgeny. I was specifically looking for an allusion, and yours was very interesting."
+6
27 mins
Jack Doughty
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
United Kingdom
Translator since 1953
Native in: English
Works in: Russian to English, German to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
417
is a law-abiding citizen
Not a quotation but a commonly used expression. Could be used satirically.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Donald Jacobson
3 mins
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Thank you.
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| neutral |
Oleg Lozinskiy
: Sir! I would have supported your option, but... The very first allusion popping-up in my mind was to the 2009 F. Gary Gray's movie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_Abiding_Citizen) and I'm not sure whether it would fit the intent of this translation.:-)
12 mins
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I suggested this answer before I'd even heard of the film. I saw references to it on Google when looking for a definition, but didn't think that made it necessary to withdraw the answer.
|
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| agree |
Kari Foster
: It is such a common expression that I don't think many English-speakers will automatically think of the film of that title. // In fact, I had never heard of the film either.
45 mins
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Thank you. I'd never heard of the film before this question was posted.
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| agree |
Armen Ayvazyan
: I don't think it is the reference to the film title that matters here. It is rather the fact that the English collocation is so trite that it might just as well be be used satirically/ironically as in the original text. I would go for it.
2 hrs
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Thank you.
|
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| agree |
Oleksiy Markunin
9 hrs
|
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Thank you.
|
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| agree |
Vladimir Zakharov
: well placed sarcasm :)
19 hrs
|
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Thank you.
|
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| agree |
cyhul
1 day 9 mins
|
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Thank you.
|
+1
11 mins
Oleg Lozinskiy
Russian Federation
Russian Federation
Native in Russian
Works in field
Russian Federation
There's No Limit to Perfection
Native in: Russian 
Works in: English to Russian, Russian to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
243
respects the criminal code
"Do you know," Ostap said, "you shouldn't have signed
that so-called Sukharev pact. That mental exercise, it seems
to me, has exhausted you frightfully. You are becoming sillier
before my very eyes. Note this: Ostap Bender never killed
anyone. He has been killed. That happened. But he himself
is pure before the law. I admit that I'm no cherub, of course.
I have no wings. But I respect the criminal code. This is my
weakness."
http://idlewords.com/telenok/malamuth.txt
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Note added at 13 мин (2015-05-18 09:03:20 GMT)
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does honor the Criminal Code
“You know,” said Ostap, “you should never have signed the so-called Sukharev treaty. The intellectual effort clearly exhausted you. You are getting dumber by the minute. Please note that Ostap Bender has never killed anyone. Have others tried to kill him? They have. But he himself stands pure in the eyes of the law. I’m no cherub, of course. I don’t have wings, but I do honor the Criminal Code. That is my weakness.”
http://idlewords.com/telenok/2.htm
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Note added at 14 мин (2015-05-18 09:04:20 GMT)
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http://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/ilya-ilf-and-evgenii-petr...
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Note added at 19 мин (2015-05-18 09:09:15 GMT)
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Почему бы не выбрать из уже имеющихся переводов "Золотого теленка" на английский язык? Я привел два варианта из трех источников. Наверняка есть еще.
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Note added at 31 мин (2015-05-18 09:20:53 GMT)
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Educated non-Russian speakers would certainly recognize the allusion. Non-educated Russian speakers would never recognize the allusion even in the source text in Russian. So, the 'QUESTION' is WHOM the client does want to address himself. Non-Russian speaking soccer fans? Russian-speaking soccer fans? Unless the audience is clearly defined the entire endeavour is gibble-gabble as THERE IS INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER :-)
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Note added at 56 мин (2015-05-18 09:46:15 GMT)
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TO: ASKER
Я бы очень осторожно отнесся к желанию Вашего клиента дать 'перевод с аллюзией'. Как бы не получилось, что вместо "симпатии к человеку, информация о котором приводится", у читателей не возникли серьезнейшие сомнения не только в "законопослушности судьи конкурса", но и в его/ее психическом здоровье. "Аллюзии", адресованные в "пространство" - вещь опасная.
that so-called Sukharev pact. That mental exercise, it seems
to me, has exhausted you frightfully. You are becoming sillier
before my very eyes. Note this: Ostap Bender never killed
anyone. He has been killed. That happened. But he himself
is pure before the law. I admit that I'm no cherub, of course.
I have no wings. But I respect the criminal code. This is my
weakness."
http://idlewords.com/telenok/malamuth.txt
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 мин (2015-05-18 09:03:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
does honor the Criminal Code
“You know,” said Ostap, “you should never have signed the so-called Sukharev treaty. The intellectual effort clearly exhausted you. You are getting dumber by the minute. Please note that Ostap Bender has never killed anyone. Have others tried to kill him? They have. But he himself stands pure in the eyes of the law. I’m no cherub, of course. I don’t have wings, but I do honor the Criminal Code. That is my weakness.”
http://idlewords.com/telenok/2.htm
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 мин (2015-05-18 09:04:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/ilya-ilf-and-evgenii-petr...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 мин (2015-05-18 09:09:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Почему бы не выбрать из уже имеющихся переводов "Золотого теленка" на английский язык? Я привел два варианта из трех источников. Наверняка есть еще.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 31 мин (2015-05-18 09:20:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Educated non-Russian speakers would certainly recognize the allusion. Non-educated Russian speakers would never recognize the allusion even in the source text in Russian. So, the 'QUESTION' is WHOM the client does want to address himself. Non-Russian speaking soccer fans? Russian-speaking soccer fans? Unless the audience is clearly defined the entire endeavour is gibble-gabble as THERE IS INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER :-)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 56 мин (2015-05-18 09:46:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
TO: ASKER
Я бы очень осторожно отнесся к желанию Вашего клиента дать 'перевод с аллюзией'. Как бы не получилось, что вместо "симпатии к человеку, информация о котором приводится", у читателей не возникли серьезнейшие сомнения не только в "законопослушности судьи конкурса", но и в его/ее психическом здоровье. "Аллюзии", адресованные в "пространство" - вещь опасная.
Note from asker:
| Thank you, Oleg, but the idea is not to translate the quote (as non-Russian speakers would never recognize it), but to think of some other similar quote with the same emotional impact. |
| Дело не в том, сколько вариантов перевода существует, а в том, чтобы иностранный читатель при взгляде на цитату, сумел ее моментально распознать, не обращаясь к внешним источникам, чего, естественно, не произойдет, воспользуйся я готовым переводам. В том-то и сложность, чтобы подобрать любую другую цитату, которая не несет особой смысловой нагрузки, но позволяет читателю порадоваться от распознания интертекстуализма и почувствовать симпатию к человеку, информация о котором приводится. В противном случае мы получим бесмысленную фразу о законопослушности судьи конкурса, в чем, собственно, было бы странно усомниться. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Lazyt3ch
: Как вариант, просто "respects the law" (учитывая, что в некоторых странах используется "penal code").
2 hrs
|
|
Спасибо, Рашид!
|
1 hr
Kari Foster
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
United Kingdom
Technical knowledge, attention to detail
Native in: English
Works in: French to English, Italian to English, German to English, and 1 more.
a clean, upstanding chap
A quote from Hugh Kingsmill. It depends on the level of irony you are looking for -- this could give a rather sarcastic tone.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Armen Ayvazyan
: The level of irony is the almost an exact match to describe the original book character (Ostap) but it would be a way too far-fetched to describe a member sitting on a panel of judges :) A great option though, I must say!
1 hr
|
|
:-)
|
3 hrs
Rachel Douglas
United States
United States
Native in English
Works in field
United States
Excellent English from Russian originals
Native in: English (Variants: Australian, US, British)
Works in: Russian to English
Related KudoZ points
:
212
never worries 'bout his line
Can't think of anything like that as quite universally recognized in AE, as Ostap Bender's phrases are in Russian, but this idea is from "The Music Man." What might make it work, is that it's also about the "great qualities" of a swindler: "Ever hear of a fellow by the name of Hill?" - and the people singing go on to list all his qualities that make him a successful salesman.
http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/themusicman/rockisland.htm
I'm only not sure how universally the musical is still known. Forty or fifty years ago, every high school in the USA would stage it at one time or another. It did have a revival on Broadway in 2000 and a movie remake in 2003, so maybe it's catch phrases, from "76 trombones" to the catalog of Harold Hill's virtues, are still generally known.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Music_Man
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Note added at 3 hrs (2015-05-18 12:17:37 GMT)
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Obviously, this one departs from the "law-abiding" idea.
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Note added at 3 hrs (2015-05-18 12:18:10 GMT)
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Correction: "its" not "it's".
http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/themusicman/rockisland.htm
I'm only not sure how universally the musical is still known. Forty or fifty years ago, every high school in the USA would stage it at one time or another. It did have a revival on Broadway in 2000 and a movie remake in 2003, so maybe it's catch phrases, from "76 trombones" to the catalog of Harold Hill's virtues, are still generally known.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Music_Man
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2015-05-18 12:17:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Obviously, this one departs from the "law-abiding" idea.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2015-05-18 12:18:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Correction: "its" not "it's".
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Kari Foster
: I have no idea whether this would fit the asker's context, but good idea. Musicals could be a fruitful source ("good old reliable" Nathan Detroit from "Guys 'n Dolls"?)
2 hrs
|
|
Thanks, Kari. As noted, it departs from the "law-abiding" idea, but we do know some context: advertising & sales, hence the "great salesman" allusion might work; and the original invoked a famous fictional swindler, hence Harold Hill for Ostap Bender.
|
+1
20 hrs
pays his taxes
Вспомнил фильм «Афера Томаса Крауна» (The Thomas Crown Affair) 1999 года.
www.imdb.com/title/tt0155267/
Там некий художник, вроде привлекавшийся за подделку картин известных мастеров, а затем ставший вполне респектабельным гражданином, говорит: “Anyway, I pay taxes now”.
http://www.cswap.com/1999/The_Thomas_Crown_Affair/cap/en/25f...
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Note added at 20 hrs (2015-05-19 05:22:00 GMT)
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Искренне болеет за ФК «Барселона» и чтет уголовный кодекс, а ещё склонен к самоанализу.
=>
Is a huge fan of Barcelona soccer club, pays his taxes, and is prone to self-reflection.
Разумеется, “soccer” можно заменить на “football”, но опасаюсь, как бы в отдельно взятых странах не истолковали неверно.
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Note added at 20 hrs (2015-05-19 05:26:08 GMT)
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Нашел контекст: http://fakestival.ru/jury
Цитата:
Работает на армянском радио «ВАН» в разных качествах, а в свободное от эфира время занимается производством рекламы уже 14 лет. Судил и был судим практически на всех рекламных фестивалях, но в Каннах пока замечен не был. На Fakestival впервые. Искренне болеет за ФК «Барселона» и чтет уголовный кодекс, а ещё склонен к самоанализу.
www.imdb.com/title/tt0155267/
Там некий художник, вроде привлекавшийся за подделку картин известных мастеров, а затем ставший вполне респектабельным гражданином, говорит: “Anyway, I pay taxes now”.
http://www.cswap.com/1999/The_Thomas_Crown_Affair/cap/en/25f...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2015-05-19 05:22:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Искренне болеет за ФК «Барселона» и чтет уголовный кодекс, а ещё склонен к самоанализу.
=>
Is a huge fan of Barcelona soccer club, pays his taxes, and is prone to self-reflection.
Разумеется, “soccer” можно заменить на “football”, но опасаюсь, как бы в отдельно взятых странах не истолковали неверно.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2015-05-19 05:26:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Нашел контекст: http://fakestival.ru/jury
Цитата:
Работает на армянском радио «ВАН» в разных качествах, а в свободное от эфира время занимается производством рекламы уже 14 лет. Судил и был судим практически на всех рекламных фестивалях, но в Каннах пока замечен не был. На Fakestival впервые. Искренне болеет за ФК «Барселона» и чтет уголовный кодекс, а ещё склонен к самоанализу.
Discussion
Please note, no soccer fans are involved, as it could mistakenly be understood from the quote I mentioned. The audience of the text is people involved in advertising and design, who, I guess, are considered to be intelligent and creative. They would definitely recognize the Russian allusion :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_Abiding_Citizen