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202° y 153°

Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

plano de desembarco

English translation:

landing or floor

Added to glossary by James Arthur Williamson
Jan 24, 2013 06:02
11 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Spanish term

plano de desembarco

Spanish to English Tech/Engineering Construction / Civil Engineering Safety regulations
From the occupational Health and Safety Plan of a building site:

Las escaleras de mano a utilizar en esta obra sobrepasarán en 0,90 m la altura a salvar. Esta cota se medirá en vertical desde el plano de desembarco al extremo superior del larguero.

This expression occurs in many specifications copied from a book by María Dolores Crespo Cortés, but I can't find an English version.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +2 landing surface
References
It does (also) refer to ladders.
Change log

Jan 25, 2013 11:14: James Arthur Williamson changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/1001384">James Arthur Williamson's</a> old entry - "plano de desembarco"" to ""landing ""

Discussion

Charles Davis Jan 24, 2013:
Yes, I see what you mean. If you imagine trying to do it, it's obvious. Being pretty clumsy, I would probably fall :)
Sergio Campo Jan 24, 2013:
@Charles Right. The goal of this rule is to help the operator in getting off and, most importantly, on the ladder (when descending from the upper surface), which is much trickier if the ladder does not protrude above the landing area.
Charles Davis Jan 24, 2013:
Let's be practical here: the only reason for having a rule about how far the ladder must protrude above the "plano de desembarco" is to enable people to get off the ladder safely. That distance makes no difference to someone who is going to work standing on the ladder and not get off it at the top. This could happen sometimes, but I'm very surprised at the idea that operators will only step off the ladder onto a landing "in a small number of cases". Normally this would be the rule rather than the exception, I would have thought.
Charles Davis Jan 24, 2013:
Ladders certainly do have landings. The landing is not structurally part of the ladder of course, but that doesn't mean they don't have them. The landing of a ladder is where you get off. Sergio's references and arguments are absolutely correct.

If a UK reference is wanted, this is from Schedule 6 of the Work at Height Regulations 2005:

"6. A ladder used for access shall be long enough to protrude sufficiently above the place of landing to which it provides access, unless other measures have been taken to ensure a firm handhold."
http://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/heightreg.htm

The "target height" is the landing point (or surface, to fit "plano"). It makes no difference for these purposes whether the worker stays on the ladder or gets off. The 90 cm are measured from the level to which the ladder provides access, and this is called the landing.
Sergio Campo Jan 24, 2013:
Thanks for your comment, James. In any case, my point would be that if the ST in spanish uses "desembarco", it is implying that you get off the ladder. If you do not get off the ladder there is no "desembarco".

If the original safety rule in spanish also applies, as you say, to an operator working on a ladder, I'd agree that "landing" should not be used, but in that case I would also say that "desembarco" is a bad choice of words in the ST.

On the other hand and although I can't be totally certain, I believe that this safety rule is meant especifically for an operator using a ladder to access an upper surface (and I say this not as a translator but rather as a Project Manager who has worked for several years on construction sites), in situations as the one shown in slide no.29 of the following document:
https://www.osha.gov/dte/grant_materials/fy08/sh-17787-08/sc...

I'd also contend that although I agree that ladders do not have landings "per se", the term landing is frequently used in the specific context of ladders as all these documents show, referring to the surface where the operator "lands" when getting off the ladder.
James Arthur Williamson (asker) Jan 24, 2013:
I agree with your definition of "desembarco" in Spanish, and in English as far as a staircase is concerned. However, ladders don't have landings and the safety rule applies whether the operator gets off the ladder (onto a landing or other structure) or not. The ladder must extend to 0.90 m above the target height. In my opinion "landing" would be correct in a small number of cases (if the operator leaves the ladder and steps onto a landing) but is too restrictive as a general rule. However, thanks for taking the trouble to answer so fully, I appreciate your effort.
Sergio Campo Jan 24, 2013:
I respectfully disagree... Your text is speaking about safety measures to be taken when using portable ladders in building sites. In this context, "desembarco", in spanish, means the surface or area where you get off the ladder. The DRAE gives for "desembarco" the following definition: "Meseta o descanso en donde termina la escalera y está la entrada de una habitación", which would basically be equivalent to the definition of "landing" in english: "area at the top or bottom of a staircase".

The two references I pasted in my answer show the use of the term landing in the same exact context (safety measures for stariways and ladders). From the OSHA document: "When portable ladders are used for access to un upper landing surface, the side rails must extend at least 3 feet (.9 m) above the upper landing surface." I would argue this is the same exact recommendation given in the document you are translating.

Two more references from online dictionaries showing "landing" as translation for "desembarco" in this context:
http://www.construmatica.com/construpedia/Desembarco_de_la_E...
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dict_en_es/spanish/dese...
James Arthur Williamson (asker) Jan 24, 2013:
"Landing" for "desembarco" doesn't make sense in this context. It is the position of the worker when he/she reaches the target height. I think something like "This height shall be measured vertically from the plane of the target elevation to the tip of the rails" would be more suitable.

Proposed translations

+2
1 hr
Selected

landing surface

To my knowledge, this is the term used in this context for "plano de desembarco". Or just "landing", as in the second document below.

Some references:
http://www.osha.gov/Publications/osha3124.pdf
(page 5)
http://www.gov.pe.ca/law/regulations/pdf/O&01G.pdf
(see point 23.2)
Peer comment(s):
agree Charles Davis : Definitely correct
4 hrs
Thanks, Charles
agree Toni Castano : Convincing.
5 hrs
Thanks, Toni
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.

Reference comments

7 hrs
Reference:

It does (also) refer to ladders.

Yes, it can also refer to ladders, as this reference objectively confirms.

http://www.prevention-world.com/es/comunidad/foros/viewtopic...
* REQUISITOS DE LAS ESCALERAS DE MANO
- Deben disponer en el extremo de los largueros de zapatas antideslizantes.
- Deben sobrepasar 90 cm como mínimo la altura a salvar midiéndose esta cota en vertical desde el plano de desembarco al extremo superior del larguero.
- Estarán firmemente amarradas en su extremo superior al objeto o estructura al que den acceso.
- Las escaleras de tijera estarán dotadas en su articulación superior de topes de seguridad de apertura, tendrán hacia la mitad de su altura una cadenilla de limitación de apertura máxima y no se usarán a modo de borriquetas y siempre se usarán abiertas totalmente para no mermar su seguridad.
- Los peldaños deberán disponer de una superficie rugosa para apoyo de los pies.

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Note added at 7 hrs (2013-01-24 13:51:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Hi James, from your profile I infer you are British. Sergio´s references are US-American. But this additional reference is from the UK and clearly states that "landing surface" is the corresponding term to the Spanish "plano de desembarco". To me it is difficult to conclusively assess whether this expression is also acceptable in UK English, but it is beyond doubt that it is used in the technical UK jargon.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrpdf/rr205.pdf
Ladders that are used as a regular means of access between levels of a structure.
“(a) shall extend at the upper level at least 900 mm above the landing or floor;
(b)
shall have a clear space of 150 mm behind every rung;
(c)
shall be located so that an adequate landing surface free of obstacles is available at the top and bottom of ladder;
(d)
shall be secured at the top and bottom to prevent movement”.
Note from asker:
Yes, but that's in Spanish Toni. We know that the term "plano de desembarco" is used to apply to ladders in Spanish. The question is, what is an adequate translation to English?. "Landing", in my opinion, is not applied to ladders in the English language even where the term "desembarco" is used in Spanish.
Yes, it seems that I will have to reconsider my interpretation of the meaning of the expression. Thank you all. I will award the points to Sergio since he is the only one who has actually posted an answer.
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