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capriole ontologiche

English translation: ontological capers

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Italian term or phrase:capriole ontologiche
English translation:ontological capers
Entered by: Dana Rinaldi

16:27 Sep 19, 2010
Italian to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Philosophy
Italian term or phrase: capriole ontologiche
This is the context (from a book on cartography):

La tavola e la mappa sono la stessa cosa, ancora alla fine dell’Ottocento la prima era sinonimo della seconda, ambedue si riferiscono all’identica materiale “struttura che connette” come avrebbe detto Bateson, alla medesima “agenzia produttrice di pensiero” secondo l’espressione di Freud: al piano delle capriole ontologiche, delle più ardite trasmutazioni relative alla natura delle cose.

Thanks
Dana Rinaldi
Italy
Local time: 17:18
ontological capers
Explanation:
...still going on!!!

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Note added at 2 hrs (2010-09-19 18:52:54 GMT)
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Hi, Dana. Capriole ontologiche – is not a standard expression belonging to philosophical argot: it's ironic. Therefore, it would be futile to search for its "philosophical equivalent" in English, although, I'm sure, Google would contain instances of such a usage... as Google contains instances of ANY usage (and that's why I don't trust it one bit!). It sounds good and right to me; I personally used “theoretical capers" many a time in my own books and articles, so why not? Cheers.
Selected response from:

Michael Korovkin
Italy
Local time: 17:18
Grading comment
I stayed with my original idea after all. Thanks to everyone.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +1ontological capers
Michael Korovkin
4 +1ontological somersaults
Matthew Furfine
3 +2ontological gymnastics
Mr Murray (X)
2 +1ontological manoeuvre
liz askew
3ontological leaps
Jim Tucker (X)
3ontological intricacies
cynthiatesser


  

Answers


15 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +1
ontological manoeuvre


Explanation:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ontological manoeuvre &btnG...

liz askew
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:18
Does not meet criteria
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  cynthiatesser
28 mins
neutral  Thomas Roberts: I also think this is a misleadingly weak rendition.
13 hrs
  -> hence the 2. Thanks for the nice comment.
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54 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
ontological leaps


Explanation:
Generally used in religious discussions, of the transformation from ape to humans, but can be applied to other radical changes.

Specifically, it is used to indicate the transformation from idea to substance, as in your passage.

http://forum.wolframscience.com/showthread.php?threadid=1495

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Note added at 1 hr (2010-09-19 17:27:59 GMT)
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(2500 Google hits in quotes)

Jim Tucker (X)
United States
Does not meet criteria
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Michael Korovkin: no, "ontological leap" is a standard philosophical expression; and its no less standard equivalent in Italian is "salto ontologico" - not "capriola" + Ecco la risposta d'un vero professionista! Magari tutti i colleghi fossero così! Cheers!
1 day 4 hrs
  -> OK, I buy that.
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
ontological capers


Explanation:
...still going on!!!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2010-09-19 18:52:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Hi, Dana. Capriole ontologiche – is not a standard expression belonging to philosophical argot: it's ironic. Therefore, it would be futile to search for its "philosophical equivalent" in English, although, I'm sure, Google would contain instances of such a usage... as Google contains instances of ANY usage (and that's why I don't trust it one bit!). It sounds good and right to me; I personally used “theoretical capers" many a time in my own books and articles, so why not? Cheers.

Michael Korovkin
Italy
Local time: 17:18
Does not meet criteria
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 44
Grading comment
I stayed with my original idea after all. Thanks to everyone.
Notes to answerer
Asker: I had found ontological capers but I'm not convinced. Did you find any links that could help? Thanks.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  luskie: non sono sicura di come tradurrei, ma cercherei di non discostarmi troppo dall'originale... sicuramente non è un'espressione tipicamente filosofica (come invece "salto ontologico")... e una capriola è una capriola è una capriola :)
1 day 3 hrs
  -> Grazie! Come ho detto anche io. Si, non è un salto Hegeliano ma Steiniano: capriola è una capriola è una capriola)
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
ontological intricacies


Explanation:
As everyone seems to disagree with anyone else I'm providing further reasons for disagreement :-)

cynthiatesser
Italy
Local time: 17:18
Does not meet criteria
Native speaker of: Italian
PRO pts in category: 8
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10 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
ontological somersaults


Explanation:
I would stress the histrionic nature of the mental positioning, choosing the most direct translation of "capriole", which should also render the metaphor less dry and abstract.

Matthew Furfine
United States
Local time: 11:18
Does not meet criteria
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  luskie: non sono sicura di come tradurrei, ma cercherei di non discostarmi troppo dall'originale... sicuramente non è un'espressione tipicamente filosofica (come invece "salto ontologico")... e una capriola è una capriola è una capriola :)
18 hrs
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
ontological gymnastics


Explanation:
I understand this as being in line with Saint Aquinas and Jacques Lacan's ideas on 'self-reflexivity' ... tied in directly to the text with Lacan's analysis of Descartes (along with Freud's opinions of Descartes)...and other clues.

The main clue being "La tavola e la mappa sono la stessa cosa" - 'meaning, they have folded back into 'itself' as one.'

Aquinas was similarly discussing the 'reflexivity of the soul'. The 'reditus ad seipam' - the bending of the soul back upon itself.

This folding-back - NOT a leap, or jump ahead - matches the use of 'capriola' in the idiom 'fare le capriole per quelcosa' - to 'bend over backwards for something'.

But, 'bending over backwards' is not quite the idea here, as it suggests a sacrifice. So, I went with a synonym - gymnastics. [not sure how many Ghits that gets* - I'm basing my answer on my understanding of the text.]

I think 'ontological flexibility' would give the wrong message as it doesn't indicate the direction, and deals with mutations.

Plus, 'gymnastics' gives the idea of 'contortions,' 'somersaults' and 'choreography' - as associated with 'capriole.'

The reference ("“struttura che connette” ('sensitivity to the structures that connect’)) to Gregory Bateson in the T1 also convinces me this is a 'folding backward' - as Bateson was interested in the 'economics of flexibility.'

Well, to put it simply - the translation piece is quite weighty, and ties together a history of western thought on the self quite nicely.

[*bwah - it only gets 16 Ghits. Oh, well! If answers are decided on Ghits, better forget this one.]

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Note added at 7 days (2010-09-27 13:06:24 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

I'm glad I could at least provide a few 'real world' examples.

Example sentence(s):
  • Through this form of <b>ontological gymnastics</b> comes the primary illumination of the Discordian mystic. [web source]
  • But he saves himself once again by embodying polar opposites, by performing the <b>ontological gymnastics</b> he attributed to Jean Genet. [web source]

    Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Bateson
    Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflexive_self-consciousness
Mr Murray (X)
Italy
Does not meet criteria
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Thomas Roberts: A capriola is literally a "forward roll", and this is never used in a figurative sense in English. Gynmastics encapsulates the concept the original author had in mind.
6 hrs
  -> Thank you Thomas - I only saw this agree after the decision. Sorry.
agree  Jim Tucker (X)
1 day 8 hrs
  -> Thank you Jim - I only saw this agree after the decision. Sorry.
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