Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
l'objet ou la cause d'un sinistre
English translation:
subject or the cause of any claim
French term
l'objet ou la cause d'un sinistre
- Que les biens et droits immobiliers objets des présentes, ne sont pas à ce jour l'objet ou la cause d'un sinistre.
My problem: does "sinistre" mean a fire? loss and damage? something else?
None of the other seven representations connects with this one and nothing in the rest of the document helps.
Is anyone able to say this term has a specific meaning? It appears to be vague to me but I could be wrong
Cause of loss | Peter Field |
May 15, 2023 18:17: Jennifer Levey Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
subject nor the cause of any claim
-->
are neither the subject nor the cause of any claim.
where objet, as is often the case in FR, is what would commonly be considered as the 'subject' in EN, and refers to the apartment that's being sold, and the ST is stating, for example, that there is no claim pending for insured damage to that property (eg: broken windows);
and cause, in both FR and EN, refers to situations where some other property (a neighbouring apartment, the communal staircase, etc.), has suffered insured damage originated by some failing related to the property that's being sold (eg: water from leaking pipe in the apartment seeps put and damages the carpet in the communal corridor).
IOW, the ST differentiates between claims designed to recoup the apartment vendor's own losses, and claims against the seller's insurance but designed to cover the losses of third parties caused by the apartment that's for sale.
Thanks! I am "tending this way" but let's see what all the other usual suspects have to say |
the subject or cause of a casualty (claim)
-> casualty normally fits a marine insurance ('assurance') context, though had been my first all-purpose, 'one-size almost fits all' choice.
UK insurance translators have traditionally been unable to tell me why it doesn't apply outside of a personal injury. in the US, there is no such equivocation.
I normally take Neil C's insutrance tarnslation as 'Gospel' (see the first weblink), so am adding his 'claim' in brackets, though feel that Peter F. ought to post his idea of 'loss' as an answer.
USA: Casualty insurance means that the policy includes liability coverage to help protect you if you're found legally responsible for an accident that causes injuries to another person or *damage to another person's belongings*.
http://eng.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/insurance/2498759-au-moins-dun-sinistre.html
http://www.allstate.com/resources/what-is-property-and-casualty-insurance
Thanks! I usually associate "casualty" with death. Would not "claim event" be the better rendition? |
are not currently the cause of or covered by any claim
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Note added at 1 hr (2023-05-14 16:04:18 GMT)
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I think it is fairly clear here (assuming the wider context supports): "Are any claims currently outstanding in respect of the properties?"
Yes, "sinistre" does indeed often mean "claim". Hard to decide whether this means claim or (loss and) damage |
agree |
Mpoma
: Yes. One translation of sinistre which often applies is "insured event". But "claim" is right for this case.
25 mins
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Thanks, Mpoma! I like your suggestion too, but think my suggestion does perhaps fit this specific text better.
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agree |
Daryo
: That would make perfect sense - the Buyer doesn't want to end up in the middle of some ongoing insurance dispute.
7 hrs
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Thanks, Daryo!
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agree |
Charlie Bavington
: Agree with claim, which was the Q posed. Doubts about using 'covered' as I first interpreted it as 'insured' (i.e. 'is not insured'). But AT wasn't asking about the whole thing, just sinistre, & claim works just fine AFAIAC.
20 hrs
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Thanks, Charlie! Yes, 'covered' was a poor choice!
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neutral |
Jennifer Levey
: I agree with 'claim' forsinistre, but would avoid 'covered' because even if the seller thinks something's covered 'cos it's listed in his policy the insurer may decide yet otherwise (force majeur, act of God, insured's negligence, etc...).
21 hrs
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Yes, I agree! I was concentrating too much on the 'claim' part and didn't think it through.
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To have undergone or caused an accident
Reference comments
Cause of loss
neutral |
Daryo
: more accurately "un sinistre" is the event itself // "Cause of loss" would fit in this ST like a square peg in a round hole ...
8 hrs
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Discussion
Peut-être le texte aurait-il dû etre rédigé comme suit : ...ne font/ ne sont l'objet d'aucune déclaration de sinistre.
As a legalese expression I *think* the best bet for this in this situation is "presently". AdrianMM might be able to come up with a better idea...
Cela pourrait vouloir dire : à ce jour , aucun dommage n'a été occasionné, I.e., aucun sinistre (claim) n'a été déclaré.
So an "insured event" may have occurred, but then again it may turn out that the event was not insured. If you put "insured event", which very often works to translate sinistre, you are presuming that the claim will be successful. The French word covers both a claim, which by its nature is always tentative, and also an actual occurrence of an event which turns out to be covered.