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Glossary entry

français term or phrase:

foi sociale

anglais translation:

social faith

Added to glossary by Una Dimitrijevic
Jan 26, 2018 17:52
6 yrs ago
français term

foi sociale

français vers anglais Art / Littérature Art, artisanat et peinture art/design as public service
Context: an artists' manifesto contesting current views of contemporary decorative arts

Paragraph: "« Tout art d’élite est un art mort », proclame Tolstoï, qui prétend, à juste raison, qu’il ne peut y avoir d’art sans foi commune. (…) C’est pourquoi cette notion de l’intérêt public, en dehors de tout parti politique et tout système, nous voulons au contraire y trouver notre plus belle justification, et nous voulons voir dans ce retour à une foi, une foi sociale, l’assurance que nous sommes à la source même de tout un système de création artistique, harmonieux, complet et sincère. (...) Nous continuerons à penser que ce n’est pas être dans le mauvais chemin que de persévérer dans des recherches d’esthétique pratique, qui permettent d’intégrer, dans les H. B. M. par exemple, des éléments de formes, séduisantes, mais logiques d’abord."

I'm struggling to find the right way to express this concept of "foi sociale" here and to understand how closely it relates to the "foi commune" mentioned just before. Is it a question of faith/belief or rather confidence/trust? Perhaps a trust in society and a shared trust in the power of art?

What do you think? I'd love your input!

Thanks
Una
Proposed translations (anglais)
4 social faith/social zeltgeist
References
Existing translation
Change log

Jan 26, 2018 17:52: changed "Kudoz queue" from "In queue" to "Public"

Discussion

Una Dimitrijevic (asker) Jan 29, 2018:
Thanks for the insightful discussion, it clarified a lot for me by providing more context than I originally had!
David Vaughn Jan 27, 2018:
"Socialism can define a period of time's zeitgeist Sure, why not? But it isn't here, so that is beyond the realm of this translation. It would appear that if anything the author would define the period's zeitgeist as reactionary.
Francois Boye Jan 27, 2018:
@ David Vaughn

Socialism can define a period of time's zeitgeist. Please read E. Hobsbawn and his history of fascism and communism.
David Vaughn Jan 27, 2018:
sociale In 1924, even more than today, this reference to "foi sociale" is a fairly transparent reference to socialism. The original readers of this text (as we should be) were clearly aware that the author's perspective (shown in part by quoting Tolstoy in a favorable light) is socialist, even communist. The translation itself doesn't need to include this fact, but it must be informed by it.
David Vaughn Jan 27, 2018:
faith I think your instinct is right, foi must be translated in the same way in both cases. Foi commune is most likely referencing religious faith, "the opiate of the people", which Marxists like Tolstoy thought needed to be replaced.
Francois Boye Jan 27, 2018:
There is a German concept adopted by the English language, zeitgeist (the mind/soul of the time), which means all the cultural and ideological features of a period of time.

To apply it to a society, it is necessary to talk about a social zeitgeist.
Marco Solinas Jan 26, 2018:
Shared principles In my opinion, "l’assurance que nous sommes à la source même de tout un système de création artistique, harmonieux, complet et sincère. (...)" indicates the artists' awareness of themselves as a creative group or movement, having a "shared credo", a "shared set of principles".

Proposed translations

5 heures
Selected

social faith/social zeltgeist

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist

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Note added at 7 hrs (2018-01-27 01:35:50 GMT)
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Erratum: ZEITGEIST instead of zeltgeist
Peer comment(s):
neutral David Vaughn : "Faith" needs to be retained. There is NOTHING about zeitgeist in this passage.
4 heures
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks, social faith seems like the most straightforward option."

Reference comments

3 heures
Reference:

Existing translation

This may or may not be useful, but having found it I think I should post it. It's from a text called "Visualizing L'Union des Artistes Modernes: The Media of a Social Revolution", but an young American art historian called Kiersten Mounce:

"Modern art was to be a “frame for contemporary life…truly a social art.” Although U.A.M. used the language of aesthetics to pronounce objects successful, their definition of beautiful or pure is only partially concerned with visual characteristics. "Pure art is accessible to all and not an imitation made for the vanity of some. And of this it can be proud. ‘All elitist art is dead art,’ proclaimed Tolstoy, claiming correctly that there can be no art without common faith…a social faith, the assurance that we are the source of a whole system of artistic creation, harmonious, full and sincere.""
http://scalar.usc.edu/works/uam/technology_1

Personally, given the link to Tolstoy, I think she's right and that "foi" means "faith".

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Note added at 3 hrs (2018-01-26 21:02:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry: I meant "by a young American art historian".

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Note added at 3 hrs (2018-01-26 21:32:01 GMT)
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Faith doesn't have to be religious.
Note from asker:
Thanks for the link, I went with 'social faith'.
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree David Vaughn : Marxism considered its principles to be scientific, but that does not preclude having faith in them. Difficult here to translate "foi" in any way except as "faith". [Sorry, programing glitch when I tried to edit my comment.]
7 heures
Thanks, David. I quite agree.
agree B D Finch : I would note, re David's comment above, that a Marxist can have faith in principles rather than in what their outcomes will be.
14 heures
Very much so; in fact that is particularly why "faith" is the right word, I think.
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