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sassa-modé sassa ma pororo
Jul 22, 2010 14:17
13 yrs ago
16 viewers *
French term

dans l'exercice ou à l'occasion de l'exercice des fonctions

FVA Not for points French to English Law/Patents Law: Contract(s) Confidentiality clause
Hello,

If anyone can help me understand the difference between these two conjunctions, I would really appreciate it.

Context:

Tout collaborateur est tenu à une discrétion professionnelle absolue pour tout ce qui concerne les informations dont il a connaissance *dans l’exercice* ou *à l’occasion de l’exercice* de ses fonctions.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +2 when carrying out their job role or any related duties
4 +1 in the exercise, or as a result of the exercise of his/her duties
4 +1 "whilst" exercising its duties vs when able/entitled to do so
3 +1 in carrying out his duties, or in any activity in support thereof
3 while performing his duties or whilst doing something incidental thereto
Change log

Jul 23, 2010 09:07: Stéphanie Soudais changed "Term asked" from "\"dans\" VS \"à l\'occasion de\" l\'exercice des fonctions" to "dans l\'exercice ou à l\'occasion de l\'exercice des fonctions"

Discussion

MatthewLaSon Jul 23, 2010:
Many options, imho or incidental to his duties
or any matter related thereto
in support of any activity thereof
cranium (asker) Jul 23, 2010:
Thanks - that sounds nice and concise!
B D Finch Jul 23, 2010:
Alternative How about:
in the course of or incidental to his/her duties?

""Students" shall mean full and part-time registered students of the University acting in the course of or incidental to their studies. ..."
www.calendar.soton.ac.uk/sectionIV/ipr.html
"the ownership of intellectual property which is developed in the course of or incidental to employment. This case specifically deals with the ownership of ..."
www.griffithhack.com.au/.../A Sharp Lesson for Universities...
cranium (asker) Jul 23, 2010:
Thanks everyone for your helpful contributions! With Finch's explanation in mind and Mathew's link to that thread, I like Clanola's solution using the word "incidental", though I will still tweak it a little.
B D Finch Jul 22, 2010:
While, when or as a result of? It is possible to become aware of information while performing one's duties but quite independently of performing those duties. E.g. while you are working your friend or spouse phones you up and tells you something. Your employer cannot have any rights over that information. It is also possible to become aware of information as a result of performing your duties but when you are not performing those duties. E.g. you are in the pub after work and a member of the contractor's staff, whom you know only as a result of working for your employer comes up to you and tells you something confidential and sensitive (e.g. price information) about the project you are working on. Were you to reveal that information to a third party, your employer might well have a claim against you.
Valentina Viganò Jul 22, 2010:
@ MatthewLaSon Sorry but I just meant to say that the phrase as it is makes sense because the two expressions in context mean 2 different things. The way you explain it is perfectly correct, but it does not make sense to me. However, it is my way of seeing things and did not mean to offend. My interpretation is explained in my proposal and in the discussion board, perhaps I shall be more neutral (as you were kind enough to be) next time.
Valentina Viganò Jul 22, 2010:
Not sure about directly or indirectly I think you are slightly off track. My impression is that the difference is "whilst" vs "when able". "à l'occasion" means when it is entitled to but doesn't necessarily follow through.
MatthewLaSon Jul 22, 2010:
Comment This same question came up a few weeks ago. Sadly, it seems to have been mistranslated.

It's being used similarly to how the French uses it in "à l'occasion d'un evènement" (i.e., pour, soutenir, appuyer)

See: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/law:_contracts/3...

It's not that simple to translate.
polyglot45 Jul 22, 2010:
that could get you out of it quite neatly in fact
cranium (asker) Jul 22, 2010:
Thanks so much. So a good translation might be "during the course of their duties, directly or indirectly"?
polyglot45 Jul 22, 2010:
the difference is that in the first case "dans" it means while he is actually discharging his duties, whilst in the second "à l'occasion..", it means while he is fulfilling his duties but not exactly as part of those duties, for example something he might overhear by accident

Proposed translations

+2 (+2 )
20 hrs
Selected

when carrying out their job role or any related duties

is probably what they mean! and is far clearer in English
Note from asker:
Belated thanks for that! (Just got the proz notification in my mailbox).
Peer comment(s):
agree MatthewLaSon (meets criteria) : Yes. In the other "à l'occasion de" question asked a few weeks ago (link in Discusson Area), I proposed "and any matter related thereto" and hid it in favor of "in support of any activity thereof". They both work, imho.
4 hrs
Thanks Matt
agree Gina W (meets criteria)
69 days
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Comment: "First validated answer (validated by peer agreement)"
+1
1 hr
French term (edited): "dans" VS "à l'occasion de" l'exercice des fonctions

in carrying out his duties, or in any activity in support thereof

Hello,

It could be that "à l'occasion de" means "pour" (dans le but de d'exercer ses fonctions comme il faut).

à l'occasion de l'exercise des fonctions = pour (dans le but) = in support thereof (in carrying out his duties)

I hope this helps.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2010-07-22 15:29:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

dans l'occasion = in the course of
Peer comment(s):
neutral Valentina Viganò (meets criteria) : voilà
2 hrs
Hi. Please clarify? So, you're disagreeing because I'm trying to phrase the whole phrase, including both "dans l'occasion" et "à l'occasion". How does that warrant a disagree? No offense taken. You can change your disagree to a neutral, if you wish (edit)
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+1
1 hr
French term (edited): "dans" VS "à l'occasion de" l'exercice des fonctions

in the exercise, or as a result of the exercise of his/her duties

The difference is that the latter could be a direct or an indirect consequence but was not necessary for the duties to be exercised. The above is the standard, boilerplate expression.

"committed in the exercise or as a result of the exercise of their functions. Prosecutions are initiated before the jurisdictions of common law. ..."
www.constitutionnet.org/files/Comoros Constitution.pdf

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2010-07-22 16:10:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Can be shortened to: "in, or as a result of, the exercise/performance of ..."

Alternatively: "in connection with, or consequential upon"

"... to make provision for other matters in connection with, or consequential upon, ... on judges and officers of any such court such duties and powers, ..."
www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/.../cukpga_19670004_en_1 -
Peer comment(s):
neutral MatthewLaSon (meets criteria) : How do you get "result" out of "à l'occasion de"?
5 mins
Ask a 2nd hand car dealer! Because you wouldn't, in English, say "as the result of an opportunity arising from ...".
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2 hrs
French term (edited): "dans" VS "à l'occasion de" l'exercice des fonctions

while performing his duties or whilst doing something incidental thereto

it was held that personal injury by accident which occurs to an employee while performing his duties or whilst doing something incidental thereto arises in the course of his employment and although the judgment of the majority in Davidson v Mould does not go to the extent of establishing the proposition which the learned Chief Justice said had not been finally established, it does show that where an employee is upon his employer’s premises with his employer’s sanction during a break in his employment and is injured, what seems to be a very slight connection between what he was doing at the time of his injury and his employment is sufficient to bring the injury within the course of his employment.

http://www.nt.gov.au/justice/ntmc/docs/judgements/2007/20071...
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+1
3 hrs
French term (edited): "dans" VS "à l'occasion de" l'exercice des fonctions

"whilst" exercising its duties vs when able/entitled to do so

"à l'occasion" also means "given the chance/possibility"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2010-07-22 18:12:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The way i see it, the employee/consultant is under the obligation of absolute discretion regarding information it becomes aware of during the exercise of his/her functions or that he/she becomes aware of because of his/her position.
Obviously, a consultant has access to information that is obtained from his/her work (i.e. in a report) , or information he/she obtains because he/she is working in a certain position (data observed to provide the report. In this sense, the "opportunity" arises because the consultant is entitled to certain data, but this clause prohibits him/her to divulge it.
I really hope I've explained myself properly.
Peer comment(s):
neutral MatthewLaSon (meets criteria) : I don't think that is the idea, Valentina. The idea is more in lines with "pour" (in support of), imho.
12 mins
What I'm saying is that it is more a case of "because of" rather than "in support of "
neutral Claire Nolan : ''Avoir l'occasion de'' means ''to have the opportunity, the chance to''. ''À l'occasion de'' as a prepositional phrase does not have that same meaning. ''Its'' is not the correct pronoun here. It should be ''his'' or ''her''.
20 mins
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