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Spanish to English translations [PRO] Social Sciences - Education / Pedagogy
Spanish term or phrase:bachiller as univsersity title v. licenciado
This is from Peruvian documents. A woman has two diplomas both awarded by the faculty of obstetrics of the Universidad de San Martín de Porres. The first, dated 1994, is the "grado académico de bachiller en obstetricia". The second, awarded three years later, is the "titulo de licenciada en obstetricia". Both are awarded by the "Consejo Universitario" after the candidate was "aprobada en la Facultad de Obstetricia". Now normally I would translate "bachiller" as "high school graduate" and "licenado" as "bachelor" (i.e. the lowest university degree). But here, as described above, the degree of "bachiller" is granted by a university. So what do the two terms mean here in Peruvian practice? The accompanying transcript issued in 1997 is for five years of study in ten "ciclos".
Explanation: After completing the university studies, the person gets a certificate as Bachiller (I would translate it as "University graduate"). Later he/she prepares a thesis or some other requirement accepted by the university, and gets the "Licenciatura" which is the real title. There are some schools that offer the "International Baccalaureate", at high school level, but has nothing to do with the Bachiller (first diploma, of very little importance, as the real one for the practice of the profession is the "Licenciatura".)
The website of dominirosa (see above) is very helpful in clarifying the confusion resulting from a Google search in indicating that in Peru "bachillerato" is used for both a two year program and one from four to five years. The trouble with using "Bachelor's Degree and Graduate Certificate" per Kirendall's suggestion is that it is the licenciatura that idescribed as a "grado académico" while the bachillerato is described merely as a "titulo professional", which would clearly appear to be less than a "degree".
I agree that the whole process is pretty vague and the multiplicty of definitions of "bachillerator" for Peru reinforces this. The reader will have the transcript which shows courses and grades for the complete ten cycles of the "licenciatura in obstetricia". As for the titles, five years undergraduate courses minus thesis strikes me as justifying "bachelor" which after all is our "undergraduate degree" (which only normally includes four years); and that plus a thesis it seems reasonable to call "master's" since that is our lowest graduate degree. I'm following Maria's suggestion but with the modification of applying admittedly approximate but more readable terms.
...not nearly as important as the courses and grades. However, what is to say that course names and grades are really definitive? I do a lot of transcripts and I wonder... they cannot possibly know much about many of these schools.
Normally these transcripts are submitted to some "foreign study evaluation" outfit. How they come to a well-founded conclusion on an assessment of the value of such studies I do not know. But it is probable that whatever name may be given to a degree is..
Doing what I should have done before, I went to the University's site, and found that the 10 "ciclos" in my transcript correspond to the course load for the licenciatura. Yet it was another three years before the licenciatura was granted. This would seem to eliminate the possibility (supported by some Google sites) that the "bachillerato" is just an advanced high school degree, and support the idea that the fundamental difference between "bachillerato" and "licenciatura" is the thesis. Incidentally, it is clear from the site that the licenciatura is in some kind of sub-doctor status that involves all aspects of assisting of pregnant women,m including administrative ones.
My point is that the evidence suggests that the answer lies somewhere between "bachelor and master" (which strikes me as a reasonable correspondence of the terms "undergraduate degree" and "graduate degree"), so the question is do you round up or down? As for choosing the vagueness option, the client wants the translation to submit to someone -- I have no idea whom -- and presumably does not want that someone scratching his head.
What you have just stated on description appears to be contradictory to your conclusion. But regardless of that, in translation I would say "when in doubt be vague"; that is, do not commit yourself to specific terms that may prove to be embarassing later.
I take you point, Henry, but the totally contradictory information from the Google search that I mentioned stands in the way of making such an explanation.
Another detail is that the diploma for the "bachillerato" describes it as "dicho título profesional" while that for the "licenciatura" refers to it as a "grado academico". This would seem to support "associate" and bachelor". There's something to be said, though, for the Latin principle that "in dubiis pro reo" (when in doubt find for the defendent," and thus using the titles "bachelor" and "master".
Of course undergraduate degree v. graduate degree sounds awkward in English, but then again it probably should, if for nothing else to underscore the lack of equivalency. Perhaps a note to explain the situation could also be used.
There's much to be said to Maria's suggestion, given the non-equivalance of the educational systems to to translation "el consjuo universitario ha otorgado el títilulo de bachiller en obstatricia" by "the university board has granted an undergraduate degree in obstetrics" seem a bit awkward to me, and I think would be to the English reader. If there is consensus that "graduate degree" and undergraduate degree" can be applied (and I again note the "all over the map" Google sites I would be inclined to translate "graduate degree" by "master" and "undergraduate degree" by "bachelor".
It may be best to go with non-specific terms such as María suggests. Terms don't mean much anyway, now I am hearing high school being called a "licenciatura" in some places, so there you go!
A lengthy search in Google under "bachillerato Peru" lends the most contradictory results. Some sites describe it as a completion of the high school degree, but (according to others) one done in a University, which would support "associate" v. "bachelor". Another talks about how upon completion of a "bachillerato" Bachillerato one can obtain a "licenciatura" by presenting a thesis and some extra courses. Yet a third descrives the "bachillerato" as requiring three to five years study, and the "licenciatura" five to six. The transcript I have is for five years, without describing the degree aimed for, but with the studies ending in 1993, the year before award of the "bachillerato" in 1994 and three years before the award of the "licenciatura". Given that at least five years of study have been carried out I am tempted by "bachellor" and "master", but again some of the sites I visited mentioned above would appear to support "associate" and "bachellor". Any additional thoughts on this choice one way or the other would be welcome.
A further issue would be to reconcile "obstetrics" with a degree that is not an MD (or after an MD) because it is a medical specialty, unless it refers to "midwifery". Sometimes no reasonable equivalents can be found. The research task is yours.
Yes, only in Perú the case is different. "Bachiller" represents a college degree and then the next one in rank is "licenciado". For purposes of translation I have never researched this detail to come up with acceptable equivalents, which you might do.
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Answers
8 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +4
bachiller as university title v. licenciado
undergraduate degree v. graduate degree
Explanation: This has appeared many times in kudoz. I think the last time it was solved calling it like I do it now. Probably because "bachelors" in US university are considered "undergraduate" students when going for a master. There's hardly ever a true correspondence between American degrees and L.A.'s and Spain's ones. Good luck. (I've also seen this mentioning the years needed for each of the degrees in brackets, and leaving the Spanish terms with " ")
María T. Vargas Spain Local time: 11:24 Specializes in field Native speaker of: Spanish, English PRO pts in category: 8
peer agreement (net): +4
