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Zukunftsdebatte

English translation: outrageous that over 7 million

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:Zukunftsdebatte
English translation:outrageous that over 7 million
Entered by: Jonathan MacKerron

00:42 Sep 9, 2003
German to English translations [PRO]
Government / Politics / Politics
German term or phrase: Zukunftsdebatte
political text;
"....skandalösen Ausschluss von über sieben Millionen Migranten in Deutschland aus der gesamten Zukunftsdebatte."
Jonathan MacKerron
outrageous that over 7 million "migrants" in Germany have been excluded
Explanation:
in all debates on issues concerning the country's future.

The use of "migrants" is interesting here. It really narrows the meaning of whom they are talking about. I'd leave it. some of the "migrants" are 2, 3rd or even 4th generation and were born in Germany.
Selected response from:

writeaway
Grading comment
This is closest to the tone I was looking for, thanks to all contributors!
PS: Proz.com would be a much nicer place if a confrontational tone could be left out of our comments; we're all translators and we need each others help, not reprimanding....
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +6outrageous that over 7 million "migrants" in Germany have been excluded
writeaway
3 +1discuss (debate) about (the) future
D D (X)
4debate on social planning
William Stein
4discusssions about the future
Ellen Zittinger
4It is a shame that the immigrants issue has not been considered in the onging political debates,
Aniello Scognamiglio (X)
4have no voice in their future
Maureen Holm, J.D., LL.M.
32 alternatives
elzosim


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
discuss (debate) about (the) future


Explanation:
only one possibility to translate this awful word

D D (X)
Local time: 07:36
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  swisstell: debate on the future (discussion about the future)
2 mins
neutral  zhdim: That's the meaning, but then the English is left quite meaningless.
1 hr
  -> Thank's a lot Mister!
agree  Ellen Zittinger: debates
3 hrs
disagree  William Stein: I agree entirely withzhdim. What is "discuss"? Is that supposed to a noun?
14 hrs
  -> to discuss you can find in any dictionary!
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11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
2 alternatives


Explanation:
I think that Zukunftsdebatte may have two different meanings>

1. a debate about the future (concerning the future)

and 2. a future debate (in the future)

The context should help you orientate.

elzosim
Local time: 09:36
Native speaker of: Native in GreekGreek
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51 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
debate on social planning


Explanation:
That might be a bit clearer in this context:
Over seven million immigrants were scandalously left out of the debates on social planning.

"Planning" necessarily refers to the future, of course. "Social" is a bit of an interpretation, but that's obviously what's at issue here.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-09-09 10:01:28 (GMT)
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Writeaway: This is not a chat line. You are abusing this \"change comment\" function. You should formulate your comment and then live with it. If you have so much to say, all you have to do is add your own answer, not use my posting as a chat room.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-09-09 15:46:12 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Metzger: You use of the phrase \"Migrant is the standard term\" is reveals your general sensitivity to language. The standard term for what, may I ask? Here is the quote from the enlightening article you sent me:

April 1999
Volume 5 Number 2


UK: Migrants
The UK admits up to 10,000 students from Central and Eastern Europe each summer to fill temporary jobs, often in agriculture

These are students who are admitted for one summer only, and it\'s highly doubtful for they\'re the ones who should be included in the \"debate on the future\".
You seem to be suffering under the illusion that slavish word-for-word translations is somehow accurate, i.e. accurately conveys the meaning of the expression.

And by the way, if you want to change your comment five thousand times you can add your answer since it\'s an obvious abuse of the comment system.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-09-09 15:46:13 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Metzger: You use of the phrase \"Migrant is the standard term\" is reveals your general sensitivity to language. The standard term for what, may I ask? Here is the quote from the enlightening article you sent me:

April 1999
Volume 5 Number 2


UK: Migrants
The UK admits up to 10,000 students from Central and Eastern Europe each summer to fill temporary jobs, often in agriculture

These are students who are admitted for one summer only, and it\'s highly doubtful for they\'re the ones who should be included in the \"debate on the future\".
You seem to be suffering under the illusion that slavish word-for-word translations is somehow accurate, i.e. accurately conveys the meaning of the expression.

And by the way, if you want to change your comment five thousand times you can add your answer since it\'s an obvious abuse of the comment system.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-09-09 19:29:51 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

typos:
highly doubtful that they\'re the ones
word-for-word translation is somehow accurate


William Stein
Costa Rica
Local time: 00:36
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 6

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  zhdim: Yes. The sentence sounds a bit lame without the additional "social". ...left 7 mill. immigrants out of the debate about the future? No, I don't think so. And it is obviously something "social" being discussed.
1 hr
  -> Thanks.
neutral  writeaway: agree with planning, but not with social. it's not just social planning.the foreigners are simply discounted in debates about the future.("gesamten Zukunftsdebatte.")but it is "simple" to answer constructive criticism with a flip insult
4 hrs
  -> Thanks for pointing out the word-for-word machine translation, but unfortunately it's not quite so "simple" as you think.
disagree  Kim Metzger: Reducing the term to 'social planning' is taking unwarranted liberty with the text provided. Accuracy is far preferable to guessing. Migrant is the standard term used in the UK and the US http://migration.ucdavis.edu/rmn/Archive_RMN/apr_1999-19rmn....
13 hrs
  -> Are you the same guy who just translated "Gesellschaft" as "partners" and summrarily dismissed all arguments? Now that's accuracy for you!
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
discusssions about the future


Explanation:
talks and debates

Ellen Zittinger
Local time: 23:36
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
It is a shame that the immigrants issue has not been considered in the onging political debates,


Explanation:
... with the economic and social impact that 7 million foreign people might have.

I had to formulate a whole sentence to better reflect my ideas.
Please forgive;-)

Aniello Scognamiglio (X)
Germany
Local time: 08:36
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 8
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +6
outrageous that over 7 million "migrants" in Germany have been excluded


Explanation:
in all debates on issues concerning the country's future.

The use of "migrants" is interesting here. It really narrows the meaning of whom they are talking about. I'd leave it. some of the "migrants" are 2, 3rd or even 4th generation and were born in Germany.

writeaway
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 20
Grading comment
This is closest to the tone I was looking for, thanks to all contributors!
PS: Proz.com would be a much nicer place if a confrontational tone could be left out of our comments; we're all translators and we need each others help, not reprimanding....

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Steffen Walter: "...excluded *from*..."?
58 mins
agree  Deborah Shannon: Yes, excluded from. The main thing is, expansion to "the country's future" solves the problem, I like that.
1 hr
agree  Aniello Scognamiglio (X): imo the best so far
6 hrs
agree  Kim Metzger
6 hrs
agree  William Stein: The use of "migrants" is a typical example of a pseudo-faithful word-for-word translation that is as clear as mud. What exactly is a "migrant"?
8 hrs
agree  roneill
9 hrs
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18 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
have no voice in their future


Explanation:
If you want to get past the "debates on the future" obstacle.
I'm assuming the context has already shown that what's being debated affects these persons, but they have no say in the matter.

Maureen Holm, J.D., LL.M.
United States
Local time: 02:36
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 3
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