Glossary entry (derived from question below)
German term or phrase:
es solle ihm auf eine Erkenntlichkeit nicht ankommen
English translation:
however, he should not count on signs of gratitude
Added to glossary by
Angie Schneider
May 15, 2008 12:30
16 yrs ago
German term
es solle ihm auf eine Erkenntlichkeit nicht ankommen
German to English
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
Short Story
This comes from the short story, "Gerechtigkeit" by Werner Bergengruen. The story is about a land steward who feels his has been wronged by a farmer; it appears he has wronged the farmer; in the end, the farmer had deceived the steward.
Der Vogt rief den Bauern an, er moechte ihm den Mantel borgen, es solle ihm auf eine Erkenntlichkeit nicht ankommen. Der Bauer entgegnete, der Mantel sei sein, er brauch ihn selbst und sei kein Verleiher.
Does this mean that the farmer should have been appreciative that the steward (Vogt) had approached him? Or that appreciation was not given to the steward?
Der Vogt rief den Bauern an, er moechte ihm den Mantel borgen, es solle ihm auf eine Erkenntlichkeit nicht ankommen. Der Bauer entgegnete, der Mantel sei sein, er brauch ihn selbst und sei kein Verleiher.
Does this mean that the farmer should have been appreciative that the steward (Vogt) had approached him? Or that appreciation was not given to the steward?
Proposed translations
(English)
| 5 +2 | however, he should not count on signs of gratitude |
szilard
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| 4 +5 | he can be sure of a token of the steward’s(!) appreciation. |
David Seycek
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Proposed translations
+2
7 hrs
Selected
however, he should not count on signs of gratitude
It's just the opposite, "er soll dafür keine Dankbarkeit oder Gegenleistung erwarten".
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Lancashireman
: Also how I read it, but then I do tend to see irony in a writer’s style where none may actually exist. The second extract (see next question) suggests that Bergengruen is lampooning the Vogt’s attitude. Much depends on who the second ‘ihm’ refers to.
35 mins
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Thanks!
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| agree |
Harald Moelzer (medical-translator)
10 hrs
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Thanks!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you!"
+5
11 mins
David Seycek
Austria
Austria
Native in German
Austria
engineering, marketing + word power
Native in: German 
, Czech
Works in: English to German, Czech to German, German
Related KudoZ points
:
4
he can be sure of a token of the steward’s(!) appreciation.
While there may be better ways to word this, I am rather sure that the steward demands the coat and assures the farmer that he will receive something in return.
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Note added at 33 mins (2008-05-15 13:04:00 GMT)
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Angie, please read this carefully. „...er brauche ihn selbst und sei kein **Verleiher**“. (does not rent for money). Erkenntlichkeit: token of appreciation, small reward.
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Note added at 44 mins (2008-05-15 13:14:46 GMT)
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Also, please mind my reply to Andrew’s response. Nada in this sentence hints to a difference in social standing. Erkenntlichkeit kommt von „sich erkenntlich zeigen“ (show one's appreciation).
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Note added at 18 hrs (2008-05-16 06:33:05 GMT)
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In my Note added at 44 mins, I am referring to ‘Andrew’s response’, which he chose to remove. Hence again: „Auf [whatever] soll es mir nicht ankommen“ is an idiomatic expression and a set phrase in German. See http://tinyurl.com/6e7ta6
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Note added at 33 mins (2008-05-15 13:04:00 GMT)
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Angie, please read this carefully. „...er brauche ihn selbst und sei kein **Verleiher**“. (does not rent for money). Erkenntlichkeit: token of appreciation, small reward.
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Note added at 44 mins (2008-05-15 13:14:46 GMT)
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Also, please mind my reply to Andrew’s response. Nada in this sentence hints to a difference in social standing. Erkenntlichkeit kommt von „sich erkenntlich zeigen“ (show one's appreciation).
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Note added at 18 hrs (2008-05-16 06:33:05 GMT)
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In my Note added at 44 mins, I am referring to ‘Andrew’s response’, which he chose to remove. Hence again: „Auf [whatever] soll es mir nicht ankommen“ is an idiomatic expression and a set phrase in German. See http://tinyurl.com/6e7ta6
Note from asker:
| Nothing is being offered in return for the coat. As I read it, the steward believes the farmer should give it to him, because he is of a higher social status than the farmer. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
seehand
: sehe ich auch so, auch die Begründung
46 mins
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| agree |
franglish
: just so
1 hr
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| agree |
Rebecca Garber
: very clear.
2 hrs
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| agree |
Johanna Timm, PhD
: verstehe ich auch ganz genau so.
9 hrs
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Danke, Johanna.
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| neutral |
Richard Benham
: This just doesn't seem to make sense like this.
14 hrs
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Well, it does, if you appreciate literary flavors of subjunctive mood and indirect speech.
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| neutral |
Lancashireman
: Dear David, We both share the same understanding of the idiom. The problem lies in the interpretation. My original comment was a ‘neutral’ and still is, because of the uncertainty surrounding the identity of the second ’ihm’. R Benham makes a fair point.
21 hrs
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Sure, but as I see it, the second „ihm“ is not ambiguous at all, if you read & understand: „Der Bauer entgegnete, der Mantel sei sein, er brauchE (!) ihn selbst und sei kein **Verleiher**.“ Wouldn't you agree?
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| agree |
yaprak atak
: this comes closest to my understanding ... however the irony suggests that he does not see any obligation to do so, he would not be short of a reward
77 days
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Discussion