Glossary entry (derived from question below)
español term or phrase:
constituir hipotecas, prendas u otros derechos reales
inglés translation:
(the party) may mortgage, pledge or grant other property rights
español term
constituir hipotecas, prendas u otros derechos reales
Muchas gracias
5 +5 | (the party) may mortgage, pledge or grant other property rights |
Rebecca Jowers
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4 +2 | rights in rem |
Andy Watkinson
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Jan 8, 2013 14:07: Ruth Wöhlk changed "Language pair" from "inglés al español" to "español al inglés"
Jan 22, 2013 07:13: Rebecca Jowers Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
(the party) may mortgage, pledge or grant other property rights
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Note added at 2 hrs (2013-01-08 15:07:50 GMT)
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Perhaps it should be noted that the expression "derechos reales" doesn’t necessarily refer to rights in "real property". "Prenda", for example, is a "derecho real de garantía mobiliaria", i.e., a pledge/security interest in personal property (bienes muebles) rather than real property (bienes inmuebles). Thus “derechos reales inmobiliarios” are “rights in real property” (or) “real property rights,” while “derechos reales mobiliarios” are “rights in personal property” (or) “personal property rights.” Likewise “cosa” (the Latin “res”) may refer equally to real property (“cosas inmuebles”) and personal property (“cosas muebles”).
A standard classification:
Derechos reales inmobiliarios—servidumbres, habitación, anticresis, enfiteusis, derecho de superficie
Derechos reales mobiliarios—prenda
Derechos reales que pueden recaer sobre bienes muebles o inmuebles—propiedad, usufructo, uso, hipoteca
In other respects, in English, “rights in rem” are “rights exercisable against the world at large” (Black’s) and are also called “real rights,” but aren’t necessarily “real property rights” or “rights in real property.”
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Note added at 4 hrs (2013-01-08 17:37:20 GMT)
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In response to Bilh’s comment:
Hi Bill,
I think you may be confusing property (“propiedad”) which as you mention is not referred to here and “derechos reales” which are “rights in property” or “property rights,” two of which (hipoteca and prenda) are indeed the subject of the text to be translated.
If you will reread my comment you will see that I did not indicate that “rights in rem” is an inappropriate translation for “derechos reales.” My comment referred to Andy’s observation that the text concerns “rights over REAL PROPERTY”, and this is inaccurate, since the text mentions both “hipoteca” (a right in real property—bienes inmuebles) and “prenda” (a right in personal property—bienes muebles). And as the classification that I provided shows, in Spanish the expression “derechos reales” includes both “derechos reales inmobiliarios” (= rights in real property) and “derechos reales mobiliarios” (= rights in personal property). One may indeed consider these “rights in rem” because they are rights that are “exercisable against the world at large”, which is the definition of “rights in rem” as opposed to in personam rights that are interests solely protected against specific individuals. But in my experience (and as was the case here) “rights in rem” are often confused with “real property rights”, so it may be preferable (and is certainly accurate) to translate “derechos reales” simply as “property rights” or “rights in property” when the expression includes, as in this text, both real and personal property rights.
My source for the above is:
Carlos Lasarte. "Principios de Derecho Civil, Vol. V--Derechos Reales y Derecho Hipotecario." Madrid: Marcial Pons, 2002.
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Note added at 5 hrs (2013-01-08 18:40:17 GMT)
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An additional comment for Billh:
There is probably no expression that is more universally recognized than “property rights” (here or elsewhere)! But “rights in rem” is certainly ok. What is not ok are the dictionaries that translate “derechos reales” as “real property rights” which probably started this mess in the first place. When translating patently civil law concepts, I avoid trying to force them to “fit” American or British legal terminology if I think the US or E/W terms will prompt a miscue. “Derechos reales” has been translated so many times as “rights in rem” or “real rights” along side the incorrect rendering of “real estate” or “realty” that I think many translators assume that “rights in rem” means rights in real property. For that reason I prefer the simple “property rights”.
Here are two prime examples:
1) Alcaraz Varó/Hughes “Diccionario de Términos Jurídicos”: derecho real = “legal interest; real right or interest; property right; realty; real estate” The definition was correct until they got to the “realty; real estate” part. To be fair, the last edition of this dictionary that I bought is from 2005, so this may have been corrected in the many editions since then.
2) Cabanellas/Hoague “Diccionario Jurídico Español-Inglés”: derecho real = “law regulating rights over real property; in rem right; right pertaining to tangible property.” This is incorrect on two counts. “rights over real property” are “derechos reales INMOBILIARIOS” and “derechos reales” may “certainly pertain to intangible property”. Two very common “derechos reales sobre bienes intangibles” that immediately come to mind are “usufructo de acciones” y “usufructo de patentes (o) marcas”.
Here is an example of a dictionary that got it right:
Thomas L West, III “Spanish-English Dictionary of Law and Business” derecho real = “right in rem; interest in property (both real property and personal property—examples include “propiedad” (ownership), “usufructo” (life estate) and servidumbre (easement)).” (the only incorrection here is defining “usufructo” as a “life estate” since usufructo can certainly be granted for a term of years and thus “life estate” would perhaps be a more appropriate definition for “usufructo vitalicio”.
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Note added at 6 hrs (2013-01-08 19:01:13 GMT)
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An additional comment for Billh:
There is probably no expression that is more universally recognized than “property rights” (here or elsewhere)! But “rights in rem” is certainly ok. What is not ok are the dictionaries that translate “derechos reales” as “real property rights” which probably started this mess in the first place. When translating patently civil law concepts, I avoid trying to make them “fit” American or British legal terms if I think the US or E/W terms will prompt a miscue. “Derechos reales” has been translated so many times as “rights in rem” or “real rights” along side the incorrect rendering of “real estate” or “realty” that I think many translators assume that “rights in rem” only include rights in real property. For that reason I prefer the simple “property rights”.
Here are two prime examples:
1) Alcaraz Varó/Hughes “Diccionario de Términos Jurídicos”: derecho real = “legal interest; real right or interest; property right; realty; real estate” The definition was correct until they got to the “realty; real estate” part. To be fair, the last edition of this dictionary that I bought is from 2005, so this may have been corrected since then.
2) Cabanellas/Hoague “Diccionario Jurídico Español-Inglés”: derecho real = “law regulating rights over real property; in rem right; right pertaining to tangible property.” This is incorrect on two counts. “rights over real property” are “derechos reales INMOBILIARIOS” and “derechos reales” may “certainly pertain to intangible property” Two very common “derechos reales sobre bienes intangibles” that immediately come to mind “usufructo de acciones” y “usufructo de patentes (o) marcas”.
Here is an example of a dictionary that got it right:
Thomas L West, III “Spanish-English Dictionary of Law and Business” derecho real = “right in rem; interest in property (both real property and personal property—examples include “propiedad” (ownership), “usufructo” (life estate) and servidumbre (easement)).” (the only incorrection here is defining “usufructo” as a “life estate” since usufructo can certainly be granted for a term of years and. “Life estate” would be more appropriate as a definition for “usufructo vitalicio”.
agree |
jacana54 (X)
11 minutos
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Gracias Lu
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agree |
claudia bagnardi
: I agree, Rebecca.
11 minutos
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Gracias Claudia
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agree |
Andy Watkinson
: Another answer of yours I'll "steal", (with your permission, I hope). ;-)
2 horas
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Thanks Andy
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agree |
Alistair Ian Spearing Ortiz
2 horas
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Thanks Alistair
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disagree |
Billh
: rights in rem is correct here. There is no reference to any 'property'. // 'property rights' is not a universally recognized term here - see http://indylaw.indiana.edu/instructors/cole/web page/meaning... See. Disc. Comment
2 horas
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No, indeed, as indicated in my answer and explanation, the reference here is not to "property," but rather to "property RIGHTS" or "rights in property" (in Spanish, "derechos reales".)//See my additional comment
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agree |
Edward Tully
12 días
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Thanks Edward
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agree |
Seth Phillips
460 días
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Thanks Seth
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rights in rem
i.e. they are rights over "real property" (res, Latin, literally "the thing")
neutral |
Rebecca Jowers
: Hi Andy. I will post a note about "derechos reales" above for lack of space here.
1 hora
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Thanks. Your explanations are more than welcome
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agree |
Billh
: This is absolutely correct.// of course it can apply to personal property, a chattel mortgage for example. But rights in rem, or real rights, is the correct term here.
2 horas
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Actually, Rebecca is right to point out that it doesn't necessarily refer to "real property" - can also be personal.
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agree |
Adrian MM. (X)
: rights in rem include maritime liens against vessels and are not only land rights
8 horas
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Much appreciated, but I'm afraid I'm unable to unravel all the technicalties involved
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Discussion
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish_to_english/law_patents/130...