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English translation: people suffering from/who have suffered from mental illness

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:seelisch behinderte Menschen
English translation:people suffering from/who have suffered from mental illness
Entered by: Rachel Ward

08:30 Jul 4, 2006
German to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Education / Pedagogy / reference
German term or phrase: seelisch behinderte Menschen
This is from a reference for a social education worker.

"XXX ist eine Einrichtung zur beruflichen Rehabilitation für seelisch behinderte Menschen. Konzeptionell ist sie ein Angebot für Personen, die infolge psychischer Erkrankung beruflich und sozial benachteiligt sind."

I know that "seelisch behindert" would be "mentally handicapped" or whatever the PC term is at the moment, but "psychischer Erkrankung" is "mental illness", which is rather different, isn't it? I'm not sure whether I'm missing something, or else reading too much into a straightforward paragraph.

I'd be grateful for any opinions/suggestions!
Rachel Ward
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:44
people suffering from/who have suffered from mental illness
Explanation:
I think you're right. Going by the description in the second sentence you have to assume that is what they are talking about.

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Note added at 4 hrs (2006-07-04 13:01:13 GMT)
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I think the crux of the matter is that your author uses two distinct terms to apparently refer to the same thing. Ideally you need to establish which one he/she actually means.
Selected response from:

Peter Barker
Local time: 11:44
Grading comment
I've checked with the client and she says this is it. Still seems an odd piece of German to me, but thanks, and thanks to Craig for the info too.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2people suffering from/who have suffered from mental illness
Peter Barker
5people with mental disabilities
Helen Veitch
4psychically disabled people
Natalie Aron
4emotional difficulties
Eva Middleton
4people with learning difficulties
Gabrielle Lyons
3 +1Erklärung
Craig Meulen
2 +1mentally disabled
Lori Dendy-Molz
3 -1those with a psychic illness/People with a psychic illness
lucasm (X)


  

Answers


9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +1
mentally disabled


Explanation:
I think this would work for both mental illness and mental handicaps, but there may be a more technical term.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 mins (2006-07-04 08:43:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or maybe "people affected by psychiatric disorders"

Lori Dendy-Molz
Germany
Local time: 12:44
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 24

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Natalie Aron: A person who is in a way psycically disabled can be far from being mentally disabled. As I understand it, there can be a great difference between the two of them.
6 mins
neutral  Eva Middleton: and individuals with learning disabilities find it very offensive to be lumped together with those who have a mental illness
17 mins
agree  lucasm (X): With psychiatric disorders--what's wrong with this formulation?
2 hrs
  -> Thanks. I do think 'psychiatric' is ok here, but 'mental disability' doesn't quite hit it.
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13 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
psychically disabled people


Explanation:
-

Natalie Aron
Austria
Local time: 12:44
Works in field
Native speaker of: German
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Lori Dendy-Molz: Yes, I think this is better
8 mins
  -> Thank you, Lori!
neutral  Peter Barker: This isn't a common English expression as far as I know. [New:] I didn't say it was wrong. Nevertheless I would think it is less pejorative to say someone is ill rather than disabled
1 hr
  -> Yes, Pete, it isn't a common German expression either. But this does not mean that it is wrong. It is rather a term that is just slowly coming into general use as people are getting aware... Therefore: it is 'psychically' and NOT 'mentally' disabled.
neutral  lucasm (X): Please see my comments below.
2 hrs
disagree  Craig Meulen: "psychically" disabled is simply wrong, but I checked and there is a lot of usage of "psychologically disabled", although in the usage I found it seems almost synonymous with "mentally ill"
2 hrs
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25 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
emotional difficulties


Explanation:
This tends to be called 'individuals with behavioural and emotional difficulties' in UK education literature.


    Reference: http://www.childadvocate.net/behavioral_and_emotional.htm
Eva Middleton
Local time: 11:44
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Peter Barker: Does this cover everything that can be included under "psychischer Erkrankung"?
57 mins
neutral  lucasm (X): With DHPete: see my Wikipedia link below; Schizophrenia is more than an emotional difficulty
2 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
those with a psychic illness/People with a psychic illness


Explanation:
It doesn't seem to be common yet in the English-speaking realm, but if you want to make the distinction to 'mental' illness, you could try this.

It is rather common on google (2 million plus hits), and certainly avoids the unfortunate use of 'disabled' in English, and the difficult construction 'psychically'.

HTH.

--Otherwise, 'mental illness' is fine. See the description below and compare with mental illness.


    Reference: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychische_Erkrankungen
lucasm (X)
Local time: 12:44
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Craig Meulen: it's not a "psychic" illness - that word is a false friend - it would be a psychological illness
9 mins
  -> Well, golly gee, can't argue with that. Thanks.
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11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
people suffering from/who have suffered from mental illness


Explanation:
I think you're right. Going by the description in the second sentence you have to assume that is what they are talking about.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2006-07-04 13:01:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I think the crux of the matter is that your author uses two distinct terms to apparently refer to the same thing. Ideally you need to establish which one he/she actually means.

Peter Barker
Local time: 11:44
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
I've checked with the client and she says this is it. Still seems an odd piece of German to me, but thanks, and thanks to Craig for the info too.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Craig Meulen: National Alliance for Mental Illness: http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Section=By_Illness&lstid=32...
2 hrs
  -> Thanks, Craig
agree  Ingeborg Gowans (X)
4 hrs
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
people with mental disabilities


Explanation:
Although 'disabled' is certainly to be used over 'handicapped', it is also preferable to refer to 'people with mental disabilities' rather than 'the mentally disabled'. In this context this suggested translation would allow you to avoid repeating 'people suffering from mental illnesses' in the next sentence.

Helen Veitch
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:44
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
people with learning difficulties


Explanation:
This is currently the preferred term (You said you wanted PC!)

Wordbank defines mental handicap as "A dated term for learning difficulties and/or disabilities. "
http://www.connects.org.uk/wordbank.cfm?wordid=598&wbletter=...

e.g. "Instruments designed to assess psychiatric disorders in people with learning difficulties (mental handicap) were critically reviewed from a psychometric ..."
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve& db=PubMed&list_uids=2047490&dopt=Abstrac


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day1 hr (2006-07-05 09:42:45 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

You and DHPete are right. Mental handicap/learning difficulties is not necessarily the same as mental illness, however, it IS the likliest meaning of "seelisch behindert". The German is confusing. Maybe the answer is to rethink the translation of "psychischer Erkrankung" - maybe "psychiatric (or even mental) disorders" would give a broader range of possibilities than "mental illness" without distorting the original.

Gabrielle Lyons
Local time: 11:44
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 32

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Peter Barker: Mental handicap may be the same as learning difficulties but are they both the same as mental illness?
1 hr
  -> Not necessarily! I think that's the problem with the German. See my note for more.
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13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Erklärung


Explanation:
Ich habe einen deutschen Fachmann gefragt, und folgende Erklärung bekommen, die mit dem zu übersetzenden Text gut passt. Leider habe ich heute die Zeit nicht gehabt, nach der besten englischen Übersetzung zu schauen.

"geistig behindert" - am meisten angeboren, manchmal Folge eines Unfalls
"seelisch behindert" - Folge einer psychischen Krankheit

Diese Erklärung widerspricht einigen der Antworten bzw Erklärungen (einschl meine eigene ursprünligche Vorstellung), die davon ausgehen, dass beide Begriffe in dem Text gleichbedeutend sind.

Ich schaue morgen nach entsprechenden englischen Texten.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day1 hr (2006-07-05 10:03:11 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Ich habe noch keinen Beweis gefunden, dass es tatsächlich diesen Unterschied auch im englischen Sprachgebrauch gibt - bitte um Links, wenn du mehr weisst!

Habe nach "psychologically disabled" gesucht, viele Benutzungen gefunden, aber wenn man die Texte liest, handeln sie nicht um diesen genauen Unterschied, der im zu übersetzenden Text und in der Definition des Fachmanns zu finden ist.



Mit Ilse habe ich "disagree" eingetragen, weil es definitiv nicht "psychically" disabled ist.

Craig Meulen
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:44
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 15

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Natalie Aron: Ja, Craig, da liegst du absolut richtig. Deshalb verstehe ich auch dein 'disagree' zu meinem Eintrag nicht...
10 hrs
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