| Pages in topic: [1 2 3] > | Debutant Thread poster: Rintaro Itoh
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Rintaro Itoh 
Japan
Local time: 19:49
Member (2013)
English to Japanese
+ ...
Hello everyone.
I'm a debutant for translation career, technically and specifically I have done some translation jobs for 3 years.
Without CAT Tool such as Trados, MemoQ. I only have MS Office.
Furthermore, my computer is Mac. And I understand Trados only activate with Windows.
Can I finally find a job without CAT tools?
I am thinking of purchasing Trados and PC but the initial cost needed is to earned through translation job.
Any ... See more Hello everyone.
I'm a debutant for translation career, technically and specifically I have done some translation jobs for 3 years.
Without CAT Tool such as Trados, MemoQ. I only have MS Office.
Furthermore, my computer is Mac. And I understand Trados only activate with Windows.
Can I finally find a job without CAT tools?
I am thinking of purchasing Trados and PC but the initial cost needed is to earned through translation job.
Any advice will be taken into account.
Thanks.
[2013-06-22 12:38 GMTに編集されました]
[2013-06-22 14:21 GMTに編集されました] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Henry Hinds
United States
Local time: 04:49
English to Spanish
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In memoriam
From the way you write, there is still much more you need to learn. Superior language knowledge is basic in a translation career, including both the original and target languages.
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That's not how you spell "debutante".
CAT tools are not essential, linguistic ability is. Or at least access to a spell checker...
Good luck,
Steve K.
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 16:19
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | Both are correct | Jun 21, 2013 |
Steve Kerry wrote:
That's not how you spell "debutante".
Steve K.
Debutant - is masculine
and
Debutante - is feminine.
At least that is what my dictionary says.
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Caro McL
Ireland
Local time: 11:49
German to English
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| benefits of CAT tools | Jun 21, 2013 |
Hi Andre,
I have been using Trados for many, many years and I have to say it is worth the money in terms of number of jobs and savings, but there is a bit of a learning curve in figuring out how to use it properly and you may actually find a drop in productivity first while you become familiar with it.
I noticed this recently as I moved from Trados 2007 to Studio 2011. I wasn't aware that Trados did not run on Mac, as I am a PC Windows user. I've recently started researching t... See more Hi Andre,
I have been using Trados for many, many years and I have to say it is worth the money in terms of number of jobs and savings, but there is a bit of a learning curve in figuring out how to use it properly and you may actually find a drop in productivity first while you become familiar with it.
I noticed this recently as I moved from Trados 2007 to Studio 2011. I wasn't aware that Trados did not run on Mac, as I am a PC Windows user. I've recently started researching the TM tool Wordfast as I see quite a few jobs advertised and it also looks very interesting. You could try the demo tool and see what you think of it as a starter. I notice they have a tool called Wordfast Anywhere which you can log in to almost immediately. The icons used are very similar to Trados icons.
I think you will find that for any serious translation jobs TM is an essential but it all depends on the volume of work you are doing, how much repetition you are likely to have and how comfortable you are with using software. Ideally it seems to me that translators nowadays should be able to use a variety of TM tools, but unfortunately the cost of owning several different licences is prohibitive for most translators. You will find users with preferences for particular TM tools and sometimes feelings can run strong. Ultimately if you find one that you are happy with and that allows you to get work and saves time and money then you will pay back on the investment within a few months.
Best of luck and hope this is some way helpful.
PM me if you have any particular questions and I will do my best to give you any guidance I can. I'm always interested to hear about other translators' experience and the area of TM software tools is constantly evolving so it is good to keep up with new developments.
Good luck!
Caroline.
[Edited at 2013-06-21 21:09 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Some advantages, some disadvantages | Jun 21, 2013 |
Some points that come to mind:
Cons:
1. Price - the software is definitely pricey, but if you save up and hunt/wait around for deals (or people selling their old software), you can find some decent prices.
2. If you are working from PDF files, you may have to invest in OCR software.
3. In the beginning, you will feel a little frustrated because the switch from non-CAT to CAT use is quite dramatic. You won't necessarily be faster in the beginning.
4. You will... See more Some points that come to mind:
Cons:
1. Price - the software is definitely pricey, but if you save up and hunt/wait around for deals (or people selling their old software), you can find some decent prices.
2. If you are working from PDF files, you may have to invest in OCR software.
3. In the beginning, you will feel a little frustrated because the switch from non-CAT to CAT use is quite dramatic. You won't necessarily be faster in the beginning.
4. You will need to proofread each file that comes out of the CAT tool - sometimes formatting issues occur, sometimes parts of the document are not exported or converted properly and may be missing.
5. Your pricing structure may need to change - some companies require you to offer discounts for 100% matches (that someone else translated - and you may be required to edit this and find that it is better to retranslate in some cases), repetitions, fuzzy matches and so on.
6. Getting the software won't necessarily land you more or better jobs - you have to know your source and target languages well.
7. Depending on the level of control you want over your document, the learning curve may be steeper or flatter. Plan some time to learn how to use your tool effectively.
Pros:
1. Being able to reference previous translations of similar materials helps you gain a degree of consistency between translations, providing this is required, of course.
2. CAT tools ensure that the document formatting is preserved in the translation, and even that comes with some limitations and restrictions.
3. If you like that sort of thing, there are options to provide you with pretranslations, which may help your speed.
4. Depending on your preference, you can either view text side by side on the same screen, or one line after another (source text, target text - source text, target text, and so on).
5. Helpful communities - if you have any problem, someone else has probably had a similar one or knows the answer - Google, read translation blogs, ask here in the ProZ forums... someone will be able to help you out.
I think that covers some high-level ideas - ultimately the decision is up to you, but frankly, if you pay a lot of money for something, you will definitely find a way to use it... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 11:49
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| there's no one absolute requirement | Jun 21, 2013 |
But there is an ever-increasing need for us to be on top of all the technology, as well as all the terminology in our language pairs. It's a lot to know!
Personally, I'm way short of the minimum techie knowledge. But I'm getting on, not just starting out. And even I use Wordfast Classic. I think you must find a way soon of getting a CAT tool and access to all the Windows applications. I'm no fan of MS but it's importa... See more But there is an ever-increasing need for us to be on top of all the technology, as well as all the terminology in our language pairs. It's a lot to know!
Personally, I'm way short of the minimum techie knowledge. But I'm getting on, not just starting out. And even I use Wordfast Classic. I think you must find a way soon of getting a CAT tool and access to all the Windows applications. I'm no fan of MS but it's important to have it. Can't you use Windows on a Mac somehow? I believe you can. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Rintaro Itoh
Japan
Local time: 19:49
Member (2013)
English to Japanese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you all for sharing good info.
I really appreciate it.
Best luck with your career.
Adios.
[2013-06-22 09:49 GMTに編集されました]
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Kirsten Bodart
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:49
Dutch to English
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| Well, it would be weird if a male debutant | Jun 22, 2013 |
were spelled with an e...
As to Mac and CAT, you can take a look on the forum here (probably best via the search section), because in the past I've seen a few questions on that subject.
As to CAT: it depends what work you do. We personally do not usually work with CAT and there are a few other members in the same boat (whether out of principle or not). I would say maybe about 30% of our work is with CAT. Maybe because we have built up a client base that doesn't require... See more were spelled with an e...
As to Mac and CAT, you can take a look on the forum here (probably best via the search section), because in the past I've seen a few questions on that subject.
As to CAT: it depends what work you do. We personally do not usually work with CAT and there are a few other members in the same boat (whether out of principle or not). I would say maybe about 30% of our work is with CAT. Maybe because we have built up a client base that doesn't require it, as we didn't have it in the first place.
As I said, it depends what translations you usually do. If it is questionnaires of the very same (end) client, technical reports, patient leaflets or other similar docs (hospital reports and things), contracts for the very same (end) client, management presentations etc. then you could possibly do with a CAT tool. Some advertising material contains a lot of repetitions in one lot (like hotel advertising material for several target groups that contains the same menus or so). Think things which are usually quite repetitive.
Sadly, certificates which are around in their droves and would be nice to just pretranslate, you usually get in scanned format and you have to type them anyway because the words are not recognised by the computer.
If you do more creative stuff, then CAT is rather a pain than useful. It also depends on the language, but some languages use shorter sentences and then you are constantly having to split sentences across segments, thus messing up your TM for the future.
You can start to merge and things, but that takes time which could be employed in a more useful way.
On the up, CAT tools can be useful for consistency reasons, but so can software independent term base be, as you can also use them in Word and other programs. So even if you are not working in any CAT tool, because you are dealing with a PDF or whatever, you can still benefit from your former translations (which I find quite appealing). And that independent software is not so expensive. There are such term bases available for about €150 (I'm not sure whether it's compatible with your language combination, though).
Another piece of advice: do not get intimidated by the huge presence of SDL, look into other tools as well. SDL is frankly a software monster on your computer (how many GB?) and much bigger and much more expensive than others on the market. Other CAT tools are not necessarily non-compatible either. The main thing you need to make sure is what file formats are supported by what software. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 11:49
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Try Wordfast | Jun 22, 2013 |
It's the second most widely-used CAT tool, I believe, and I see now that a MAC version is available. I also firmly believe that it would be top if agencies didn't push for Trados all the time. The Classic version must be simple if I can use it. The free version has absolutely all features enabled; the only limit is the number of translation units you can store in the currently-used TM. This can be got around, but if you're finding ... See more It's the second most widely-used CAT tool, I believe, and I see now that a MAC version is available. I also firmly believe that it would be top if agencies didn't push for Trados all the time. The Classic version must be simple if I can use it. The free version has absolutely all features enabled; the only limit is the number of translation units you can store in the currently-used TM. This can be got around, but if you're finding it that useful you'll no doubt be prepared to pay for that restriction to be lifted. And Wordfast Anywhere is a free-for-life internet-based CAT tool, so I imagine it's independent of Windows/Mac etc. (correct me if I'm wrong here).
As for the "debutant" issue, I've been an EFL trainer for 15 years now and I'm forever advising my students that the best place for a lot of English words is the dictionary. I mean, they're in the dictionary, yes, but that's where they should stay, particularly the multi-syllable ones. Debutant is in the dictionary, but better dictionaries will specify its use mainly for sport. The British National Corpus (BNC) contains just 28 entries and they relate almost exclusively to sport. Debutante has even fewer, but then the sort of society that saw girls being presented to eligible suitors has pretty much died out, thankfully. Native speakers know how and where to use these rarer words; non-natives should look for more common synonyms. How about "beginner"? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Rintaro Itoh
Japan
Local time: 19:49
Member (2013)
English to Japanese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Sheila Wilson wrote:
It's the second most widely-used CAT tool, I believe, and I see now that a MAC version is available.
Seniora Wilson,
Your advice was warmly welcomed. Thank you very much for sharing your idea.
I try WordFast. The fact that it is available with Mac is crucial. I really really appreciate.
Again, Thank you very much:)
| | | | Rintaro Itoh
Japan
Local time: 19:49
Member (2013)
English to Japanese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Monsieur Bodart.
I am really thankful for your profound advice.
I try my best.
Thank you very much.
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Kay Denney
France
Local time: 12:49
French to English
| Thank you for explaining it so well Sheila, you're a better teacher than me! | Jun 22, 2013 |
Sheila Wilson wrote:
As for the "debutant" issue, I've been an EFL trainer for 15 years now and I'm forever advising my students that the best place for a lot of English words is the dictionary. I mean, they're in the dictionary, yes, but that's where they should stay, particularly the multi-syllable ones. Debutant is in the dictionary, but better dictionaries will specify its use mainly for sport. The British National Corpus (BNC) contains just 28 entries and they relate almost exclusively to sport. Debutante has even fewer, but then the sort of society that saw girls being presented to eligible suitors has pretty much died out, thankfully. Native speakers know how and where to use these rarer words; non-natives should look for more common synonyms. How about "beginner"?
(I would just add "well-educated" before "native speakers".)
I will freely admit, despite being well-educated (master thank you) that I had never heard of the masculine version until I looked it up in my trusty OED just now. My excuse being that I don't follow sport (with the exception of boxing on Proz - joke ).
And it's just the first of the very mistakes in the post that prompt us to say that the OP should not even entertain the thought of translating into English. No amount of CAT tools can make up for the ability to write clear, concise, meaningful prose using flawless grammatical structure and words that come naturally to native speakers. There are only a handful of non-native speakers around here who can produce competent translations into English, and they have all worked very hard on their English to achieve that.
Even if you only translate from English into Japanese, you need a far clearer understanding of English or you will miss all sorts of layers of meaning. If you had had to translate the word "debutante" for example, would you have realised that the author was specifically referring to young ladies being presented to Queen Victoria to mark their entry into the marriage market, and find a word/expression similarly laden with historical and gender-biased nuances?
It seems like we get a post along these lines practically every weekend at the moment...
| | | | Kirsten Bodart
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:49
Dutch to English
+ ...
| Debutant =/= Beginner | Jun 22, 2013 |
"As for the "debutant" issue, I've been an EFL trainer for 15 years now and I'm forever advising my students that the best place for a lot of English words is the dictionary. I mean, they're in the dictionary, yes, but that's where they should stay, particularly the multi-syllable ones."
Wrong. It is a perfect word - take absolutely no notice. "Beginner" comes from Germanic, a basic word implying someone without any knowledge or experience, whereas "debutant" is a word from the French and implies someone who is capable, trained or newly-qualified but with little or no professional experience yet.
If a native speaker had used "debutant" nobody would even raise an eyebrow. It's fine - use it!
| | | | Jack Doughty
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:49
Russian to English
+ ...
In memoriam | Debutant =/= Beginner | Jun 22, 2013 |
The use of "debutant" in the male form is virtually unknown to English native speakers. Debutante had a special meaning in upper class society but is now only used in that historical sense. A beginner means someone with little or no experience, yes, but not with little or no knowledge. You can be a beginner as a translator after years of academic and technical study.
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