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Simultaneous interpretation into your non-native language
Thread poster: Ashley Wans
Ashley Wans
Ashley Wans  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 17:11
Spanish to English
+ ...
Apr 15, 2011

Hi all,

For those of you who are able to simultaneously interpret, I have a question. How long did it take you to develop the skill of simultaneously interpreting into your nan-native language? Although I am mainly translating at the moment, I do have an interpreter certification (which only tested consecutive interpretation and writing skills), and I would like to do some interpreting in the future. However, I feel that I would like to really develop all my interpreting skills f
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Hi all,

For those of you who are able to simultaneously interpret, I have a question. How long did it take you to develop the skill of simultaneously interpreting into your nan-native language? Although I am mainly translating at the moment, I do have an interpreter certification (which only tested consecutive interpretation and writing skills), and I would like to do some interpreting in the future. However, I feel that I would like to really develop all my interpreting skills first so that I can approach my work confident in my abilities.

At the moment, I do relatively well simultaneously interpreting into my native language, English. I have a few issues with speed when the speaker is going quite fast, but overall I would say I am a proficient simultaneous interpreter in this direction. However, from English to Spanish, I am VERY slow right now, and have quite a bit of problems with falling behind. I am comfortable and proficient with consecutive interpretation, but as far as the simultaneous goes I am having some difficulties.

I have decided to put myself on what I think of as an "interpreting work out plan". I am going to try to spend a minimum of 15 minutes per day practicing simultaneous interpretation for each language pair (so a total of 30 minutes). It may not sound like much, but I have not been practicing anywhere near daily, so I am hoping if I do this I will see some improvement in a few months. Right now I am working with news clips, shows (like telenovelas or dramas in English), excerpts from movies and documentaries.

Any suggestions or tips for how to practice and the best way to develop this skill? Has anyone here taken a class that they felt boosted their simultaneous interpreting abilities?

Any input or advice is appreciated.
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FarkasAndras
FarkasAndras  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:11
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Depends... Apr 15, 2011

on a couple of things. Obviously, not everyone works in both directions. Doing a retour requires a very solid command of your B language - and good nerves to even try. Not everyone is up to that, and not everyone wishes to take that pressure on even if outside observers might say they could handle it.
Some interpreters have an issue with retours as a matter of principle; they say everyone should only work into their mother tongue. I'm not in that camp: I myself do a retour and enjoy doing
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on a couple of things. Obviously, not everyone works in both directions. Doing a retour requires a very solid command of your B language - and good nerves to even try. Not everyone is up to that, and not everyone wishes to take that pressure on even if outside observers might say they could handle it.
Some interpreters have an issue with retours as a matter of principle; they say everyone should only work into their mother tongue. I'm not in that camp: I myself do a retour and enjoy doing it - and I like to think I do a passable job. What I'm saying here is that doing a retour is not "compulsory" or even customary. Whether it's expected from you also depends on what market you work for.

It sounds like you haven't studied simul formally, and I'm not sure if you're working or just practicing at this point.
I'd suggest that you keep practicing, focusing on working into English. If there's a good interpreting school in your area, ask if you can tag along for a practice session or two or participate in a one-week course. Ask the teachers to give you some feedback on how you're doing (in both directions) and take it from there.

By the way, news clips are difficult material. If you can keep up with "news in brief", you're definitely on the right track.
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Ashley Wans
Ashley Wans  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 17:11
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
No formal studying yet Apr 15, 2011

FarkasAndras wrote:


It sounds like you haven't studied simul formally, and I'm not sure if you're working or just practicing at this point.
I'd suggest that you keep practicing, focusing on working into English. If there's a good interpreting school in your area, ask if you can tag along for a practice session or two or participate in a one-week course. Ask the teachers to give you some feedback on how you're doing (in both directions) and take it from there.

By the way, news clips are difficult material. If you can keep up with "news in brief", you're definitely on the right track.


I haven't studied simultaneous formally at all yet. I have some formal training in consecutive interpreting, but at the moment I'm mainly just translating. I would like to explore interpreting a bit more, though.

I know the state certification for social work interpreters and court interpreters where I live both test simultaneous interpretation in both directions (not sure how difficult the sample you need to interpret is, however), so that's one reason why I am trying to develop my skills. That and it's actually kind of fun!


 
Parrot
Parrot  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 01:11
Spanish to English
+ ...
Amen Apr 15, 2011

FarkasAndras wrote:

...not everyone works in both directions... doing a retour is not "compulsory" or even customary.


I'm one of those who prefer not to retour. My reasons are, I'm often expected to write in Spanish (B language) for practical or academic matters (I'm a native English speaker) and I've seen what this chip can do to the native side of my brain (which is also expected to work into English from three other languages). Hello, overload!

... news clips are difficult material. If you can keep up with "news in brief", you're definitely on the right track.


Been there, done that. News packs in as many as 800 words of data every 5 minutes. Try speeches: record a favourite speaker with all his/her effects and work it out from there first, or you may end up discouraged.

Good luck


 
Ashley Wans
Ashley Wans  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 17:11
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Chip? Apr 15, 2011

Parrot wrote:

FarkasAndras wrote:

...not everyone works in both directions... doing a retour is not "compulsory" or even customary.


I'm one of those who prefer not to retour. My reasons are, I'm often expected to write in Spanish (B language) for practical or academic matters (I'm a native English speaker) and I've seen what this chip can do to the native side of my brain (which is also expected to work into English from three other languages). Hello, overload!



Thanks for the input. I'm a little confused by what you mean by chip. You mean that you avoid retouring because it is very mentally taxing and/or confusing when you are working in several other languages as well? Or is chip a term of art here?


 
Phil Hand
Phil Hand  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 08:11
Chinese to English
In your language pair? Apr 15, 2011

My understanding has always been that in the major European languages, it's common not to do simultaneous into a B language. Bidirectional usually happens in the slightly more "unusual" languages - I do both ways, and I think Farkas would count as having an unusual language. So I wouldn't worry too much about it.

You will definitely improve through practice, but it's worth getting a partner to practice with. You can't always give yourself the best feedback. The materials you're usin
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My understanding has always been that in the major European languages, it's common not to do simultaneous into a B language. Bidirectional usually happens in the slightly more "unusual" languages - I do both ways, and I think Farkas would count as having an unusual language. So I wouldn't worry too much about it.

You will definitely improve through practice, but it's worth getting a partner to practice with. You can't always give yourself the best feedback. The materials you're using might not be the most appropriate, though. As Farkas says, news is pretty much the most difficult thing to do simultaneous on. It's scripted and extremely dense. And TV shows present a whole set of their own challenges, as the speaker keeps changing.

For normal practice, you can use lectures delivered extemporaneously - there's a wealth available online. When you want to give yourself a real challenge, you can try working from scripted delivery. Sight translation - where you take a text in one language and deliver it verbally in the other language - is an important type of practice. You can allow yourself a read through of the text before you deliver it.

For me, the issue is always will power - I just can't practice on my own, and it's hard to find good partners. If you can overcome that, then you're sorted.
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Henry Hinds
Henry Hinds  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:11
English to Spanish
+ ...
In memoriam
Language Knowledge Apr 15, 2011

At least in my part of the world (USA-Mexico border) when we do simultaneous interpretation, we go both ways, and that is always. There is no such thing as going one way only. If we are lucky enough to work in pairs (sometimes we are not), then we spell one another every half-hour or so regardless of direction. If practical, sometimes we will try to coordinate things so that people are working in the direction in which they are most comfortable, or with speakers, subjects, etc. where they are mo... See more
At least in my part of the world (USA-Mexico border) when we do simultaneous interpretation, we go both ways, and that is always. There is no such thing as going one way only. If we are lucky enough to work in pairs (sometimes we are not), then we spell one another every half-hour or so regardless of direction. If practical, sometimes we will try to coordinate things so that people are working in the direction in which they are most comfortable, or with speakers, subjects, etc. where they are most comfortable, but there are no guarantees.

In simultaneous you must be comfortable going either way, and that boils down to language knowlege. You can't have any "B" languages, they must both be "A". If you're not there yet, then that is what you need to work on.
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Ashley Wans
Ashley Wans  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 17:11
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I'm in the US also. Apr 15, 2011

Henry Hinds wrote:

At least in my part of the world (USA-Mexico border) when we do simultaneous interpretation, we go both ways, and that is always. There is no such thing as going one way only. If we are lucky enough to work in pairs (sometimes we are not), then we spell one another every half-hour or so regardless of direction. If practical, sometimes we will try to coordinate things so that people are working in the direction in which they are most comfortable, or with speakers, subjects, etc. where they are most comfortable, but there are no guarantees.

In simultaneous you must be comfortable going either way, and that boils down to language knowlege. You can't have any "B" languages, they must both be "A". If you're not there yet, then that is what you need to work on.


I am up in Washington, but as far as I have been able to find out so far, if I go for a social work interpreter or court interpreter certificate, I will not pass without being able to do both directions competently. And thus I would also assume that I would be employing simultaneous translation in both directions while working, also.


 
Parrot
Parrot  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 01:11
Spanish to English
+ ...
Re: Chip - language is a kind of processor Apr 15, 2011

Language processes concepts (as interpreters we should be aware of this, we don't process words as much as concepts).

I grew up in an environment speaking several languages and during my formative years I was an inveterate code-switcher. Eventually English won out, but that doesn't kill the path-of-least-resistance instinct (observe this in bilingual societies - people would rather speak to you in the language you understand best than put up with your version of their language if it
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Language processes concepts (as interpreters we should be aware of this, we don't process words as much as concepts).

I grew up in an environment speaking several languages and during my formative years I was an inveterate code-switcher. Eventually English won out, but that doesn't kill the path-of-least-resistance instinct (observe this in bilingual societies - people would rather speak to you in the language you understand best than put up with your version of their language if it makes them suffer).

Since I slip easily into the thought-patterns of languages that have a lesser dominance, I try to avoid the back-and-forth situation in simultaneous. In the booth, for instance. Since judges have a different approach to this in the courtrooms, I tend to do one-half of the job in simultaneous and the retour in consecutive. By keeping the intervals short, I can give the impression I am doing both ways, even though I'm actually mixing modes.

I've had to write books, research and theses in my B language (which was formerly my C language when the B slot was taken up by something else). After such periods of protracted immersion, I don't feel safe until I've run a check on the A-chip. And every once in awhile I do maintenance on the other chips as well. It's the work of a lifetime.
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Ashley Wans
Ashley Wans  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 17:11
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Very interesting! Apr 15, 2011

Parrot wrote:

Language processes concepts (as interpreters we should be aware of this, we don't process words as much as concepts).

I grew up in an environment speaking several languages and during my formative years I was an inveterate code-switcher. Eventually English won out, but that doesn't kill the path-of-least-resistance instinct (observe this in bilingual societies - people would rather speak to you in the language you understand best than put up with your version of their language if it makes them suffer).

Since I slip easily into the thought-patterns of languages that have a lesser dominance, I try to avoid the back-and-forth situation in simultaneous. In the booth, for instance. Since judges have a different approach to this in the courtrooms, I tend to do one-half of the job in simultaneous and the retour in consecutive. By keeping the intervals short, I can give the impression I am doing both ways, even though I'm actually mixing modes.

I've had to write books, research and theses in my B language (which was formerly my C language when the B slot was taken up by something else). After such periods of protracted immersion, I don't feel safe until I've run a check on the A-chip. And every once in awhile I do maintenance on the other chips as well. It's the work of a lifetime.


This is really interesting stuff, Parrot!

I will keep working on my B language skills to try to get it closer to my A. I think I will also look into interpreting schools (if there are any in my area; not sure at the moment). I think I would really enjoying learning more about these skills and hopefully developing them myself at some point.


 
FarkasAndras
FarkasAndras  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:11
English to Hungarian
+ ...
A, B, C Apr 16, 2011

Henry Hinds wrote:

In simultaneous you must be comfortable going either way, and that boils down to language knowlege. You can't have any "B" languages, they must both be "A". If you're not there yet, then that is what you need to work on.


That might apply to the market you work for, but it's not a universal rule. Over here, a B is very often needed on the Hungarian market but it's entirely optional in the EU institutions - in "big" booths like English, it's all but useless. Of course it's a different sort of game: 10 to 23 languages are spoken in a meeting, with 5-15 booths, so one retour won't make much difference, unlike in two-language meetings where a retour means you won't need to set up a second booth and pay two more interpreters.

Also note that being able to work into a language (work well, even) doesn't make it an A language.
The A-B line is a bit fuzzy of course, but the practical rule of thumb is this: let's assume you're an English-Spanish bilingual with English as your dominant language, and you also work with French. If you do Es-En, En-Es and Fr-En, then you have a Spanish B. If you also do Fr-Es, then you have two A languages. Of course one could use any number of other criteria, but an A implies native-level skills, however you may define that. You can't "learn" an A language, much like you can't like become a bilingual just because you want to.

[Edited at 2011-04-16 05:15 GMT]


 
Phil Hand
Phil Hand  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 08:11
Chinese to English
Can't turn a B into an A Apr 16, 2011

That's interesting information from Henry, but I contest this idea:
You can't have any "B" languages, they must both be "A".


By the definitions I was trained with, you literally cannot turn a B into an A. An A language is a language which is native, and in which you were educated. A B language is a language that for professional purposes, you speak to the same level as an A language, and it's reasonable to interpret into a B (at least from an A). A C l
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That's interesting information from Henry, but I contest this idea:
You can't have any "B" languages, they must both be "A".


By the definitions I was trained with, you literally cannot turn a B into an A. An A language is a language which is native, and in which you were educated. A B language is a language that for professional purposes, you speak to the same level as an A language, and it's reasonable to interpret into a B (at least from an A). A C language is one in which you have perfect listening skills, but less than perfect speaking skills, and you don't work into a C language.

Or at least that's the theory - obviously it doesn't always work out exactly that way. But there's no way to "make" an A language out of a B.
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Parrot
Parrot  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 01:11
Spanish to English
+ ...
My guess Apr 16, 2011

Henry lives on a border. My guess is he's doing A-A (born there) or A-A' (at any given time, one language is dominant, the other recessive). I'm familiar with the sort of working environment he describes, and yes, it exists in the real world. It can also exist inside mixed families, for that matter. Sometimes you have to adjust the A-B-C paradigm; it's an academic concept.

Ashley's problem is A-B retour for social work and courts. It not only exists; with or without schooling, peopl
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Henry lives on a border. My guess is he's doing A-A (born there) or A-A' (at any given time, one language is dominant, the other recessive). I'm familiar with the sort of working environment he describes, and yes, it exists in the real world. It can also exist inside mixed families, for that matter. Sometimes you have to adjust the A-B-C paradigm; it's an academic concept.

Ashley's problem is A-B retour for social work and courts. It not only exists; with or without schooling, people have also managed to make the grade. A few of them may have profiles similar to Henry's, but not all. Her question is, how one goes about it. (Ashley, you might try googling Agustín Servín de la Mora, he's an interpreting coach who's published some helpful articles on-line. You could also look here: http://interpreters.free.fr/ ).

ABC is practical for organizing booths (except probably with rare combinations), but there's also the question as to how far its assumptions extend in the real world. The old Soviet Block didn't go by ABC and also managed to produce good two-way interpreters; in fact, it produced some excellent academics in the field of "interlingual mediation" (as far as I'm aware - and I can't claim more than a superficial awareness - that approach differs in the stress on interpreting as a public service, not as an activity for a chosen few).

[Edited at 2011-04-16 09:57 GMT]
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Williamson
Williamson  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:11
Flemish to English
+ ...
The magical mystery CI-A-language concept. Apr 16, 2011

Sometimes you have to adjust the A-B-C paradigm; it's an academic concept.

Indeed, it is. And the CI-A-language is an acquired language, acquired through the environment, formal interpreter-training and continuous acquisition of words, idioms and expressions. What does that word, idiom or expression mean.

I've been in a multilingual, multi-academic environment this week. Languages and finance mixed. It is not because, you are a native that you are a master of a certain
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Sometimes you have to adjust the A-B-C paradigm; it's an academic concept.

Indeed, it is. And the CI-A-language is an acquired language, acquired through the environment, formal interpreter-training and continuous acquisition of words, idioms and expressions. What does that word, idiom or expression mean.

I've been in a multilingual, multi-academic environment this week. Languages and finance mixed. It is not because, you are a native that you are a master of a certain lingo.

A link to an almost identiical discussion:

http://www.proz.com/forum/interpreting/195184-interpreting_:_a_privilege_for_natives_of_the_major_languages.html
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Aymeric de Poyen Bellisle (X)
Aymeric de Poyen Bellisle (X)
English to French
+ ...
Formal training Apr 21, 2011

I think formal training would help you a lot - working into B requires a very specific set of skills in my opinion, and they are best acquired under the guidance of interpreter trainers.

The main point you have to keep in mind is that your B is not an A, which means that you will have to process the information you hear a lot more than if you were working into your A. When you go into A, the words come quite naturally and you can (almost) always fall back on your feet without much e
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I think formal training would help you a lot - working into B requires a very specific set of skills in my opinion, and they are best acquired under the guidance of interpreter trainers.

The main point you have to keep in mind is that your B is not an A, which means that you will have to process the information you hear a lot more than if you were working into your A. When you go into A, the words come quite naturally and you can (almost) always fall back on your feet without much effort.
In your B, reformulation demands a lot more attention. To make reformulation easier, you should always sit back and systematically behave as if you were dealing with a confusing, unclear speaker, extracting ideas and reformulating them in their simplest form, without ever falling into the trap of blindly following the speaker, whose language (if they are a native speaker) is much more agile and flexible than your B.

As is often repeated in interpreting schools, KISS: (Keep It Short and Simple).

Aymeric de Poyen
Conference interpreter
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