| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | No thanks for KudoZ Thread poster: Fiona Grace Peterson
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esperantisto 
Local time: 18:45
Member (2006)
English to Russian
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SITE LOCALIZER | I don't care much | Mar 19, 2007 |
Really, many Internet communities (especially software-related) take a "cut-thru-bullshit" approach, which may look harsh, even rude compared to conventional politesse. I got used to it and it's fine with me, I even can't remember, if I was thanked for my answers awarded with KudoZ. Don't expect it -- so you won't be disappointed
| | | | | Spanish KudoZ-friendly | Mar 19, 2007 |
MÓNICA ALGAZI wrote:
I agree with Henry Hinds. The English-Spanish-English colleagues are remarkably polite -even to some askers with incredible spelling mistakes! No complaint here.
I agree with Monica and Henry, I have had no bad experiences in the Spanish KudoZ answering, and hope to have been polite myself...
However, I only rarely participate in French any more owing to a more superior general attitude that prevails there unfortunately.
But manners is a personal choice and comes from our own upbringing. A forum entry like this can help raise awareness, I suppose.
| | | | CMJ_Trans (X)
Local time: 17:45
French to English
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| Who is doing what do whom here? | Mar 19, 2007 |
I ask, because, as I understood it, Fiona was referring to people who ask questions and then fail to say "thank you" to those who have bailed them out. If that is the case, then I also agree with Writeaway et al that it is often worse not to know the final outcome of a question, especially since "asker" always has more context that those trying to help him or her.
However, one of the things that really makes me hopping mad is when someone pinches a job out from under the noses of ... See more I ask, because, as I understood it, Fiona was referring to people who ask questions and then fail to say "thank you" to those who have bailed them out. If that is the case, then I also agree with Writeaway et al that it is often worse not to know the final outcome of a question, especially since "asker" always has more context that those trying to help him or her.
However, one of the things that really makes me hopping mad is when someone pinches a job out from under the noses of more experienced colleagues by underbidding and then has the gall to ask those same colleagues to come to the party and bail him/her out when the text proves, as could have been expected, too difficult.
Surely that is the ultimate in adding insult to injury?
And, if in the end, no thanks are even given for the help, then indeed that must be the final straw. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | There's more to politeness than saying thank you | Mar 19, 2007 |
MÓNICA ALGAZI wrote:
I agree with Henry Hinds. The English-Spanish-English colleagues are remarkably polite -even to some askers with incredible spelling mistakes! No complaint here.
I realize Fiona's topic is specifically about the rudeness of people asking for help and then not even bothering to thank their askers. An asker who doesn't thank his helpers doesn't consider himself part of a community and sees the help he's getting as a service he's paying for or a free service rather than something that comes from real people, who are taking time out of their busy schedules.
But before we get carried away about the politeness of the Spanish/English communities, I'd like to point out that there is more to politeness than saying thanks. Yes, these communities are remarkably polite when it comes to saying thanks, but many members of these communities are also remarkably sloppy when it comes to taking the time to prepare a question for fellow translators properly.
One of the objectives of KudoZ is to create a reliable glossary for future reference. Take a look at how many questions are classified as "other". Far too many askers tend not to want to take the time to properly classify their questions, not to provide adequate context, not to use glossary form when entering their terms (see below, etc), and many answerers don't seem to care.
If I'm looking for a translation of a term as it's used in a specific context, it's a lot easier to find the term I'm looking for if the asker took the time to classify her question properly in the first place: education, social sciences, university, American English, for example.
Every KudoZ community develops its own culture through interaction with one another - with fellow answerers and with askers. I mostly participate in (German/English) and I believe these communities do a good job of trying to build a good community of professional translators. They educate each other on good translation practice, politeness, etc.
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TrueBaller
Local time: 11:45
Albanian to English
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| No Thanks for Kudoz Answers - It does happen! | Mar 19, 2007 |
I agree, too. Although it has been only a couple of cases to me, it does happen that people rudely do not even bother to say "thank you" for the effort you put into answering their questions, especially when they see that you have done some research for that and have sent them the links with valuable information related to their question. It hurts! I learned to console myself thinking that probably the person is too busy at the moment and can't respond and then try to avoid helping them again. <... See more I agree, too. Although it has been only a couple of cases to me, it does happen that people rudely do not even bother to say "thank you" for the effort you put into answering their questions, especially when they see that you have done some research for that and have sent them the links with valuable information related to their question. It hurts! I learned to console myself thinking that probably the person is too busy at the moment and can't respond and then try to avoid helping them again.
I don't agree with the idea that this is the internet and people don't care about politeness. Proz-Kudoz is not a chatting website. It is a real system where we help each other when we need help and a "thank you" is not much to ask for. It is the least the askers can do for those who bailed them out when they needed help.
Thank God this happens with only a minority of people, otherwise the life of Kudoz would have been too short and none of us would have seen the light of it.
[Edited at 2007-03-19 17:03] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Patricia Rosas
United States
Local time: 08:45
Spanish to English
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In memoriam | I am REALLY confused!! HELP, PLEASE | Mar 19, 2007 |
Could someone please help me understand this?
Is the consensus that when one posts a KudoZ question, and gets say 7 or 8 answers (some of which may be very helpful, and others may be just plain wrong), one ought to thank each answerer regardless?
There are two problems with that (if I've understood it correctly): first, thanking when it isn't sincere is silly; and second, the time required is immense. This morning, I find I have 7 open KudoZ questions with 26 separate ... See more Could someone please help me understand this?
Is the consensus that when one posts a KudoZ question, and gets say 7 or 8 answers (some of which may be very helpful, and others may be just plain wrong), one ought to thank each answerer regardless?
There are two problems with that (if I've understood it correctly): first, thanking when it isn't sincere is silly; and second, the time required is immense. This morning, I find I have 7 open KudoZ questions with 26 separate answers. Am I supposed to write a personal note to 26 different people?
On the receiving end, I think that KudoZ points is all I expect (along with "Thanks!") when my answer is selected. When my answers aren''t selected, I would find "thank you notes" popping up in my in-box to be downright annoying--and simply embarrassing when (as usually happens) my colleagues have shown me that my answer was lacking (or sometimes outright stupid)!
Can someone (Fiona?) please respond to this and let me know if I've misunderstood? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Let's keep things in perspective | Mar 19, 2007 |
First of all let me say that I don't get terribly upset when I'm not thanked for having provided a KudoZ answer, I just feel it is a common courtesy to acknowledge those who have taken the time to research and provide an answer.
To answer your question Patricia, I don't think it's necessary to thank everyone personally. When I close a question I normally just thank the answerer and add something like "and everyone who responded". I'm not advocating that a rigid code of etiquette be ... See more First of all let me say that I don't get terribly upset when I'm not thanked for having provided a KudoZ answer, I just feel it is a common courtesy to acknowledge those who have taken the time to research and provide an answer.
To answer your question Patricia, I don't think it's necessary to thank everyone personally. When I close a question I normally just thank the answerer and add something like "and everyone who responded". I'm not advocating that a rigid code of etiquette be enforced, mine was just a general observation
Thanks to everyone for your replies so far, it's interesting to read the different opinions ▲ Collapse
| | | | Patricia Rosas
United States
Local time: 08:45
Spanish to English
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In memoriam | oh, thanks, Fiona, for clearing that up!! | Mar 19, 2007 |
Fiona,
That's pretty much how I handle it, too. And that sort of "thank you" is sincere, because all of us who participate in KudoZ know that all (well, okay, most) answers are the result of hard thought if not extensive research. I definitely appreciate that, and I even appreciate "wrong" answers, which I find often illuminate things in a way that the right answer may not...
I guess I was flummoxed because as Henry, Mónica and others noted, in the Spanish-Eng-Spanish KudoZ, ... See more Fiona,
That's pretty much how I handle it, too. And that sort of "thank you" is sincere, because all of us who participate in KudoZ know that all (well, okay, most) answers are the result of hard thought if not extensive research. I definitely appreciate that, and I even appreciate "wrong" answers, which I find often illuminate things in a way that the right answer may not...
I guess I was flummoxed because as Henry, Mónica and others noted, in the Spanish-Eng-Spanish KudoZ, we're all pretty decent to each other, so I had some trouble imagining some of the behaviors described by people who've responded to your post.
Thanks for posting the question--obviously, it needed to be aired!
Best,
Patricia
[Edited at 2007-03-19 18:37] ▲ Collapse
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| Asker note to all | Mar 19, 2007 |
Patricia Rosas wrote:
Am I supposed to write a personal note to 26 different people?
I often add an asker note when I close the question, thanking "everyone who contributed" whether by answering, agreeing, or commenting. I appreciate their time, even if their answer is wrong. I certainly don't feel compelled to send an email to anyone, let alone to all 26! It's a nice idea, though, if someone wants to do so.
The answerer who wins the KudoZ always gets a note, not just a one-word "Thanks."
Slightly off-topic, though still within the general scope of showing gratitude to answerers: In another thread someone said that askers should let the KudoZ-winning answerer make the glossary entry, so that s/he will get BrowniZ as well as KudoZ. I've sometimes waited a while to give the answerer a chance; however, sometimes I want to combine options from two or more answerers, so I go ahead and make the glossary entry myself. As Kim said, we need to make our entries carefully and properly to enhance the usefulness of the KOG; can I rely on the answerer to take that care?
| | | | Rachel Fell
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:45
French to English
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| Politeness is appreciated | Mar 19, 2007 |
Obviously, sometimes people forget, but a "thanks to all" comment does help. I agree that it's also helpful when people add the answer they've found when closing their question because they've found the answer elsewhere, so that future searchers can be assisted. Probably not untimely to air the topic.
| | | | | Manners make the man! | Mar 20, 2007 |
I hope I don't appear biased here as my language pairs are those of Henry, Monica, Patricia and the regulars (English/Spanish - Spanish/English), but I do agree with many of the other comments posted by my more learned colleagues.
While being fairly new to this, and while not having a problem with any criticism (I hesitate to use the term "constructive" - frankly I have a problem with this term), as I feel it only augers well in the "learning curve process", what I find perturbing i... See more I hope I don't appear biased here as my language pairs are those of Henry, Monica, Patricia and the regulars (English/Spanish - Spanish/English), but I do agree with many of the other comments posted by my more learned colleagues.
While being fairly new to this, and while not having a problem with any criticism (I hesitate to use the term "constructive" - frankly I have a problem with this term), as I feel it only augers well in the "learning curve process", what I find perturbing is that some have chosen to use the forum, not for its intended purpose, which I believe is the spirit of Kudos, but rather to denigrate and be objectionable. More importance is apparently placed on earning the points rather than participating meaningfully and in good faith. Such a case in point has happened to me just today - and one cannot plead ignorance of the rules - where similar answers were posted and yet other chose to "disagree", simply because their answer was posted before (which I did not see). Can someone enlighten me on the "real spirit" of the forum?
I believe we all have to take care to be non-offensive, carefully thinking out responses/replies and if there is no value to the response, then say nothing at all!
Many thanks to all those who have personally helped me. Hi guys!
The last note, a little more tolerance of others is perhaps needed and we can all agree to disagree, but more patience please.....
Taña Dalglish
P.S. To those cricket mad- fans who couldn't be in the Caribbean - be jealous, they are here (just kidding!) (smile) ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Taña is right | Mar 20, 2007 |
Taña Dalglish wrote:
More importance is apparently placed on earning the points rather than participating meaningfully and in good faith. Such a case in point has happened to me just today - and one cannot plead ignorance of the rules - where similar answers were posted and yet other chose to "disagree", simply because their answer was posted before (which I did not see). Can someone enlighten me on the "real spirit" of the forum?
I believe we all have to take care to be non-offensive, carefully thinking out responses/replies and if there is no value to the response, then say nothing at all!
Taña Dalglish
Hi Taña
Yes, I saw that KudoZ question, and I too was amazed at the reactions. Just shrug it off--answer briefly and politely (as you did) and let it go. You will quickly learn which participants tend to be supportive and helpful and which ... well ... the less said, the better.
You already know the "real spirit" of KudoZ. Just ignore those who don't--or report to a moderator, in the most egregious cases.
Jane
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| Sweet! Thaks Jane ... you have made my day! I don't feel so bad now. | Mar 20, 2007 |
JaneTranslates wrote: Taña Dalglish wrote:
More importance is apparently placed on earning the points rather than participating meaningfully and in good faith. Such a case in point has happened to me just today - and one cannot plead ignorance of the rules - where similar answers were posted and yet other chose to "disagree", simply because their answer was posted before (which I did not see). Can someone enlighten me on the "real spirit" of the forum?
I believe we all have to take care to be non-offensive, carefully thinking out responses/replies and if there is no value to the response, then say nothing at all!
Taña Dalglish
Hi Taña Yes, I saw that KudoZ question, and I too was amazed at the reactions. Just shrug it off--answer briefly and politely (as you did) and let it go. You will quickly learn which participants tend to be supportive and helpful and which ... well ... the less said, the better. You already know the "real spirit" of KudoZ. Just ignore those who don't--or report to a moderator, in the most egregious cases. Jane
| | | | | Thanks everyone! | Mar 22, 2007 |
Frankly, no feedback at all is preferable to some of the effusive and discourteously exclusive love-ins that can ensue between an asker and his or her elected contributor, particularly where the answer chosen is a late tweak to research and effort provided by others. How much effort is it simply to add ‘Thanks everyone’?
| | | | Francis Lee (X)
Local time: 17:45
German to English
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| Thanks are due to those who try to help - not to point-grabbers | Mar 23, 2007 |
writeaway wrote:
The rudest variant of this is to post the question and when someone answers and gets a sufficient number of peer agrees, to close the question with as reason: Other.
No thanks, no explanation. no glossary entry. Kudozzing at its most selfish.
Absolutely. But there are also many cases where various colleagues put in no insignificant time and effort, only for the Asker to choose what is objectively an inferior answer. Likewise, they don't even bother to a) thank the other Answerers b) provide a single world of explanation about their decision. These tend to be a) non-natives b) incompetent native-speakers. Both are evidently out of their depth, and it's difficult to find a diplomatic way of telling them. As Kim said:
Kim Metzger wrote:
Far too many askers tend not to want to take the time to properly classify their questions, not to provide adequate context, not to use glossary form when entering their terms (see below, etc), and many answerers don't seem to care.
As is the case with other contributors here, I always AT LEAST add a "Thanks to everyone ...". Unfortunately, there are often colleagues who are just after the points and write the first thing that comes into their head, adding simply a '.' as an "explanation". No thanks are due here IMO, because such answers are in no way helpful ...
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