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ProZ quotation requests - a waste of time?
Thread poster: Andrew Catford
Paulo Eduardo -  Pro Knowledge
Paulo Eduardo - Pro Knowledge  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 12:25
Member (2008)
Portuguese to English
+ ...
Interesting Topic... Sep 1, 2009

What we have to bear...

 
AnneMarieG
AnneMarieG  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 16:25
German to French
+ ...
Yes, and it is great fun! Sep 1, 2009

Charlie Bavington wrote:

And yes, I think there are a number of "bids" for some jobs which are people replying along the lines of "are you kidding" or bidding at higher rates out of principle.


I have been quoting on jobs with a very low rate, using my own (not very low rate) and I even got -somewhat angry- answers, like 'is there a typo' or 'your rate is higher than ours' - this one is actually my favorite: poor agency!!!

Cheers and enjoy life!

Anne-Marie


 
Geraldine Oudin
Geraldine Oudin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Japanese to French
+ ...
funniest one Sep 1, 2009

A couple of days ago, I received message asking for a quote.
I gave my rate, and I got am answer asking for me to reduce my rate by 50%.
I politely refused, and received another mail a few minutes later offering me...to reduce my rate by 75%???

Very funny. I felt like they were making fun of me or something, but I controled myself and kindly replied that the cost of living in Australia being relatively high, I was not able to accept their rate.

I was half e
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A couple of days ago, I received message asking for a quote.
I gave my rate, and I got am answer asking for me to reduce my rate by 50%.
I politely refused, and received another mail a few minutes later offering me...to reduce my rate by 75%???

Very funny. I felt like they were making fun of me or something, but I controled myself and kindly replied that the cost of living in Australia being relatively high, I was not able to accept their rate.

I was half expecting a third mail offering me to reduce my rate by 100%, but it didn't happen, thanks god!
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Rebekka Groß (X)
Rebekka Groß (X)  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:25
English to German
maybe I'm misunderstanding something Sep 1, 2009

and I've only skimmed the posts in this thread but you could opt out of quotation requests altogether as follows:

In your job notifications setting, right at the bottom of the page there's a box titled Settings for both classic and Connect jobs. In the Rates section, there is a I wish to receive notifications only for jobs where the outsourcer has specified rates checkbox.

I've not actually ticked this box but since I've specified my minimum word and hourly rates (not s
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and I've only skimmed the posts in this thread but you could opt out of quotation requests altogether as follows:

In your job notifications setting, right at the bottom of the page there's a box titled Settings for both classic and Connect jobs. In the Rates section, there is a I wish to receive notifications only for jobs where the outsourcer has specified rates checkbox.

I've not actually ticked this box but since I've specified my minimum word and hourly rates (not shown in my profile), the following information also appears: You will not be notified of jobs where the offered rate is below the minimum rate specified for each language pair above. To apply your default rate to all language pairs, click "edit default rates" above.

This prevents me from receiving notifications for jobs with rates lower than mine.
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Taña Dalglish
Taña Dalglish
Jamaica
Local time: 10:25
Spanish to English
+ ...
Ah - the flip side! Sep 1, 2009

Rebekka Groß wrote:

I've not actually ticked this box but since I've specified my minimum word and hourly rates (not shown in my profile), the following information also appears: You will not be notified of jobs where the offered rate is below the minimum rate specified for each language pair above. To apply your default rate to all language pairs, click "edit default rates" above. This prevents me from receiving notifications for jobs with rates lower than mine.


Aha, Rebekka. There is a flip side. You are missing half the fun of seeing and being able to respond, in some cases, with quips such as, "surely you jest!", or clearly "there is an error: "perhaps, you meant to say 0.20 cents!" to the ridiculous postings which are far too common-place, e.g. please provide your lowest rates, 0.02 and 0.03 offers and the unrealistic deadlines.

Cheers and warm regards.


 
Robert Forstag
Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:25
Spanish to English
+ ...
Joking aside, the trend is deeply troubling Sep 1, 2009

Andrew Catford wrote:

Looking at these offers as pure entertainment gives me another reason to love ProZ. Without the exposure ProZ offers these lowballers, I'd be deprived of one of life's great sensations; enjoying the " there but for the grace of --- " effect. This view is only slightly offset by my wonder that a membership organization dedicated to advancing professionalism on both sides of the marketplace doesn't object to members being exploited in this way.

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Andrew Catford wrote:

Looking at these offers as pure entertainment gives me another reason to love ProZ. Without the exposure ProZ offers these lowballers, I'd be deprived of one of life's great sensations; enjoying the " there but for the grace of --- " effect. This view is only slightly offset by my wonder that a membership organization dedicated to advancing professionalism on both sides of the marketplace doesn't object to members being exploited in this way.

I agree that the trend is troubling and, as Taña indicates indirectly, I don't think checking a box that adorns me with a set of blinkers is something that is necessarily helpful: I myself want to be aware of the rates that are being offered in my language pair.

Andrew goes on to write:

I know the restraint of trade argument, but surely there is room for a little fragging? Say a smiley face blowing a raspberry or an insert to the effect that the offered rate is less than 20% of the mean rate charged (claimed to be charged) by ProZ members who offer this language pair.

I certainly understand the point about not restricting offers based on price, but how about a radial button on each offer that allows proz.com members to register their objection--without additional comment--that the offer in question is grossly below the market rate (we all know that the market is different for each language pair, so I don't think a recapitulation of that discussion is especially useful).

The number of such objections could then be visible to anyone reviewing the offer and then also--perhaps--be attached to the company's Blue Board rating (doing this might act as a salutary counterweight to the typical Hallelujah chorus of high ratings and laudatory comments showered upon nearly every outsourcer that regularly pays its suppliers on time).

As I see it, the problem is not so much the patently ridiculous offers themselves. The bigger concern is that the posting of such offers without any voice of objection being raised dampens down the market, so that offers that are only, say, 30% below market rate, start to become more commonplace, to win gradual acceptance, and to gradually even come to appear attractive.

And that, dear colleagues, is deeply troubling indeed.


[Edited at 2009-09-01 16:09 GMT]
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Viktoria Gimbe
Viktoria Gimbe  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 11:25
English to French
+ ...
If only Google started charging for translation... Sep 1, 2009

I wonder what would happen if Google started to charge for their MT services. Even if it were only two cents per word. I am sure that would change the way many outsourcers look at rates. I bet I wouldn't come off as so expensive anymore...

 
Madeleine MacRae Klintebo
Madeleine MacRae Klintebo  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:25
Swedish to English
+ ...
Great answer Sep 1, 2009

Andrew Catford wrote:

2) When someone asks you to review your bid and give them a better price, promise to do so. Then return with a higher price. Explain that you did not fully understand the difficulty of the project when you first reviewed it. Suddenly the first quote seems attractive!



 
eski
eski  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 09:25
Member
Spanish to English
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MODERATOR
Not just a disgrace, but most probably, a rip-off! Sep 1, 2009

Taña Dalglish wrote:

Despite asking for native-English speakers, how, pray tell, can one be reassured? Not only is the rate abominable, but the time frame is horrendous, which leaves little time for coordination or proper research, especially if there are other translators involved, which would have to happen!

Cheers all! Un abrazo.


Hi Taña,
I have followed with interest the comments made, especially yours and Robert's. It's been my experience that these "Super-rush/Huge volume" 'jobs' (they really aren't worthy of being called jobs) are often a ploy used to try and obtain work for pitiful "fees":
The scam goes like this:
They announce that they have a HUGE volume of words to be finished "Yesterday"...since no one translator could possibly finish the job alone, they mention that there will be "teams" working to knock out the job within the deadline. Of course you have no way of knowing the real volume of the project, nor how many translators are (really) involved, they are counting on the supposed "VOLUME" to 'justify' the rate, and hopefully lure the innocent into the net. Their job is to "coordinate" the slaves and keep them believing that their going to acheive a "miracle". Typically, they later come back with some fuzzy clause in the agreememnt and try to shave down the fee FURTHER...their motive is GREED; (BTW:I'm NOT theorizing; this comes from personal experience.)
I for one would certainly like to be able to leave a comment when one of these post appears on Proz: to warn the unwary.


Saludos y un abrazo.
eski


 
Wendy Cummings
Wendy Cummings  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:25
Spanish to English
+ ...
bring it on Sep 2, 2009

Andrew Catford wrote:

2) When someone asks you to review your bid and give them a better price, promise to do so. Then return with a higher price. Explain that you did not fully understand the difficulty of the project when you first reviewed it. Suddenly the first quote seems attractive!



Fantastic advice - i can't wait to try it out!


 
Abba Storgen (X)
Abba Storgen (X)
United States
Local time: 10:25
Greek to English
+ ...
What seems to be the purpose of proz Sep 2, 2009

a) The purpose of proz is for outsourcers to find better deals. It's an "inverse ebay" where translators are asked to provide lower and lower prices until they "win" a job. What they "win", seems to be low pay for the rest of their lives.

b) Location should have nothing to do with it, since we do not work from the US, UK or Australia or China. We all work over the internet. The internet is out work location, therefore countries should be irrelevant. The new generation seems that it
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a) The purpose of proz is for outsourcers to find better deals. It's an "inverse ebay" where translators are asked to provide lower and lower prices until they "win" a job. What they "win", seems to be low pay for the rest of their lives.

b) Location should have nothing to do with it, since we do not work from the US, UK or Australia or China. We all work over the internet. The internet is out work location, therefore countries should be irrelevant. The new generation seems that it misses that point (do I understand the internet better than the younger crowd?). They say "I live in India, therefore I will charge less". It's self-inflicted and it will not stop. You do not work from India my friend. You work over the internet.

I could say at my proz address "Alaska". Would it make any difference?

d) Many new agencies emerge, almost on a daily basis. Competition among them is fierce.

Current trends form future events, therefore prices will fall another 40% until the end of 2010. That's half your income.

Today's prices for translators are the prices of 1955 for translations in the U.S.
It's the only market of "professionals" on planet earth that's going backwards with a tremendous speed, faster than "free-fall".

Good luck


PS. By the way, Google is extremely profitable and pays ALL its vendors well. Why are they asking from translators to work for them for free? Who is responsible for this international abuse?




[Edited at 2009-09-03 17:31 GMT]
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