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名ごり

English translation: remnant, cultural artifact

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Japanese term or phrase:名ごり
English translation:remnant, cultural artifact
Entered by: Roddy Stegemann

01:00 Jan 30, 2010
Japanese to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature / feudalistic naming system
Japanese term or phrase: 名ごり
Full points will be given to someone who can explain the meaning of 「ごり」in addition to the term 「名ごり」itself. For example, does it originate from the verb 樵る or 伐る? Also, why do you feel that it does not appear in several major dictionaries?

「市民社会」というヨーロッパ語は、日本に残っている封建制の名ごりと対比される理想状態として日本の知識人に使われるようになりました。
Roddy Stegemann
United States
Local time: 08:26
aftereffect
Explanation:
an idea
Selected response from:

cinefil
Japan
Local time: 00:26
Grading comment
I would like to thank everyone for their reply and especially Shinji (cinefil) for his excellent reference. This latter provided a good explanation with regard to the etymology of the term, and it largely eliminated my confusion about its application in the given context. This said, I like Marie's English translation best for the context provided and she was, in the end, the quickest to respond. This makes it very difficult for me to award points. So, I have decided the following: Had I been able to find the reference that Shinji provided, I would have been able to come up with Marie's response on my own.

In reply to Susan, hindsight is nearly always better than foresight, and language can take many twists and turns in its development. It was the missing syllable の that left me clueless. Furthermore, you must realize that Japanese have a long history of using names to enforce social order. For example, during the Japanese annexation of the Korean peninsula, many Koreans were forced to abandon their Korean names in favor of Japanese names. In fact, the city in which I now live 대전 once wrote its name 太田. Under Japanese rule it was changed to 大田. In effect, what under Korean rule was thought to be a field of growth, became an emasculated large field of stagnation. Also, you must be well aware that the Japanese imperial family bears no 名字.

Furthermore, both 樵 and 伐 can be pronounced こる, and 名 is a voiced consonant that could change the こ in ~こる to the ご in ~ごり. Without a dictionary I had no way of knowing what the term meant or even how it was pronounced, and I tried two and found nothing. In short, I find your non-pro evaluation unprofessional.

Many thanks to everyone who contributed positively to this entry.
3 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
2 +2remnant
seika
3 +1aftereffect
cinefil
3traces, residue, shadows/ghosts of the past
Tina Wooden
Summary of reference entries provided
FYR
cinefil

Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +2
remnant


Explanation:
As　”a remnant of feudal times”
...just a suggestion

seika
United States
Local time: 11:26
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in JapaneseJapanese

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Shinobi
2 hrs
agree  humbird: Or "remain", context permitting.
16 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
aftereffect


Explanation:
an idea

cinefil
Japan
Local time: 00:26
Native speaker of: Native in JapaneseJapanese
PRO pts in category: 23
Grading comment
I would like to thank everyone for their reply and especially Shinji (cinefil) for his excellent reference. This latter provided a good explanation with regard to the etymology of the term, and it largely eliminated my confusion about its application in the given context. This said, I like Marie's English translation best for the context provided and she was, in the end, the quickest to respond. This makes it very difficult for me to award points. So, I have decided the following: Had I been able to find the reference that Shinji provided, I would have been able to come up with Marie's response on my own.

In reply to Susan, hindsight is nearly always better than foresight, and language can take many twists and turns in its development. It was the missing syllable の that left me clueless. Furthermore, you must realize that Japanese have a long history of using names to enforce social order. For example, during the Japanese annexation of the Korean peninsula, many Koreans were forced to abandon their Korean names in favor of Japanese names. In fact, the city in which I now live 대전 once wrote its name 太田. Under Japanese rule it was changed to 大田. In effect, what under Korean rule was thought to be a field of growth, became an emasculated large field of stagnation. Also, you must be well aware that the Japanese imperial family bears no 名字.

Furthermore, both 樵 and 伐 can be pronounced こる, and 名 is a voiced consonant that could change the こ in ~こる to the ご in ~ごり. Without a dictionary I had no way of knowing what the term meant or even how it was pronounced, and I tried two and found nothing. In short, I find your non-pro evaluation unprofessional.

Many thanks to everyone who contributed positively to this entry.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tina Wooden: Yes, I like this for the context.
2 hrs
  -> Thanks a lot, Tina-san.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
traces, residue, shadows/ghosts of the past


Explanation:
Just some other suggestions.

Tina Wooden
United States
Local time: 11:26
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in JapaneseJapanese
PRO pts in category: 8
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




Reference comments


5 mins
Reference: FYR

Reference information:
なごり【名残・余波】
(ナミ(波)ノコリ(残)の約という)
*(「余波」と書く)
*風が静まって後も、なおしばらく波の立っていること。また、その波。万七「なごの海の朝けの—」。「台風の—」
*波が退いて後に汀(ﾐｷﾞﾜ)に残る波。また、残された海藻など。万六「難波潟潮干の—」
*
*物事の過ぎ去った後、なおその気配や影響などの残ること。余韻。万一一「待ちし夜の—そ今も寝(ｲ)ねかてにする」。方丈記「かくおびたたしくふる事は、しばしにて止みにしかども、その—しばしは絶えず」
*特に、人との別れを惜しむ気持。源若紫「—も慰めがたう泣き居給へり」。「—が尽きない」
*もれ残ること。もれ残り。源紅葉賀「—なく内にも宮人も喜び聞え給ふ」
*別れること。また、別れとなること。ものごとの終り。天草本平家「—を惜しみ、涙を流されぬはなかつた」
*子孫。栄華様々喜「尚侍、六の女御など聞えし御—も」
*「名残の折」の略。
広辞苑

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Note added at 6分 (2010-01-30 01:06:57 GMT)
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http://gogen-allguide.com/na/nagori.html

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Note added at 2時間 (2010-01-30 03:44:34 GMT)
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http://animelab.com/anime.manga/dictionary/?word=phonetic&ty...

cinefil
Japan
Native speaker of: Native in JapaneseJapanese
PRO pts in category: 23
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



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