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German to English translations [PRO] Social Sciences - Psychology / philosophy, gestalt psychology, prolonged grief
German term or phrase:Nicht-mehr-da-Seins
Das Modell beschreibt die Verstärkung anfänglicher Trauersymptome durch die Art der Bewältigung: zum einen durch Vermeidung, zum anderen durch die andauernde Beschäftigung mit dem Verstorbenen, was letztlich auch der Vermeidung des Nicht-mehr-da-Seins dient.
I think this must mean that the bereaved person is avoiding FACING the fact that their loved one is no longer with them, but I wonder if there's a way this is normally translated in (Heideggerian?) philosophy.
Explanation: The model describes how initial symptoms of grief can be amplified by the way we cope with them: on the one hand, avoidance, on the other hand, a persistent preoccupation with the deceased, which ultimately avoids dealing with the deceased's absence.
Thanks to everyone; I found this a useful discussion. In the end I found it impossible to give it the Heideggerian nuances of the German. When I see a word like "Dasein," my mind clouds over and I sometimes make things unnecessarily complicated (as Phil politely points out). I used a version of Michael's translation of the sentence, which was much less clunky than my own. 4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer
No offense taken. I changed the glossary as you suggested - a good idea. As for "the risk [of my] sounding like one of the 'uninitiated' who have only read the Wiki summary of Heidegger," I don't qualify! I have not even read the Wiki summary of Heiddeger, and don't intend to unless compelled by circumstances beyond my control. (My "clunky" version pertained to the earlier part of the sentence, which I had translated too literally. You wouldn't have liked it any better than I did!)//PS - I almost always close questions quickly, mainly to prevent myself from obsessing about these things for days!
FWIW, I would like to second your choice. I have seen many texts where people (doctors, researchers) refer to some pretentious sources without ever taking the trouble to understand (in depth, or at all) what their reference really says. Even if some reference is made to Heidegger (your posting does not tell us where and how this is the case), it is really not unlikely that the authors may refer or hint, and then go on using the terminology according to their own rather than Heidegger's thinking.
As said, I am not trying to be offensive, but I have experience in this particular field (read thousands of pages) and it may have irked me a bit that I wasn't able to contribute in time =)
I saw this question earlier, but I still had to work. When I came back to it, just one day after you posted it, it had been closed.
Also, the glossary should, in my opinion, be changed to indicate that there is more than one answer to this question.
That being said, I felt the need to point out that the advice given in two of the answers is just not OK. I hope I explain this correctly, but if there is a word with a specific meaning in your text and you start using "everyday language," as has been suggested, you risk sounding like one of the "uninitiated" who have only read the Wiki summary of Heidegger.
That would be worse than making it complicated. It's science, not a shopping list. Plus, you did ask how it was usually translated. Considering the above, I would have certainly preferred your "clunky" version =)
Thanks for your input. This being an article written by psychologists for other psychologists, and not for philosophers, I think my decision makes sense, as I explained it. The word Dasein (which was not in any case my "search term") is much too complex to be understood simply as "being in the world" or "being there." Perhaps I will add a query to the authors and suggest something more Heideggerian as an option. (I played around with using the word "void," but ended up with the monstrosity "avoidance of the void...," and threw in the towel!)
You even said: "...but I wonder if there's a way this is normally translated in (Heideggerian?) philosophy..."
Dasein = being-in-the-world or being there
Cf "Bragdon expresses such feelings both playfully and earnestly to approach the real theme of his art—existence—a concept philosopher Martin Heidegger has defined as 'being there' or 'being-in-the-world.'"
Lancashireman's answer is closest (in fact, it's part of the first link).
I studied sociology and had to read a lot of ENS material related to philosophy (Hegel is, of course, someone who's mentioned quite often, but Heidegger was too).
I must say, and don't take this the wrong way, that two of the three answers may sound OK to people who typically translate other kinds of documents, but you're effectively going to butcher the text by "simplifying" it--not to mention that Phil's assumption is wrong (it's a central theme of Heidegger's!).
Best wishes
Ramey Rieger (X)
Germany
As I understand it
12:32 Nov 17, 2018
Heidegger sees this as 'devoid of being', a negation of being/existance a void. A black hole of being.
Oh! The resources popping up in that Google search you posted seem to point to yet another (implied) meaning: the future "Nicht-mehr-da-Sein" of the bereaved person themselves?!
That's exactly what's going on here. Not sure how to translate it, but your contribution moves the discussion from "how do I translate this word??" to the realm of what "prolonged grief" actually means to a human being.
I am not familiar with Heidegger's thinking, but I am a bereaved person, and I understand "Nicht-mehr-da-Sein" in a more tangible way than the colleagues. This is (possibly) not the general, abstract "fact that", but a physical voidness you experience in every place and in every situation where the deceased used to be or act.
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
6 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +1
the fact that they are no longer there
Explanation: I think a simple, literal translation makes perfect sense. There are lots of other ways of phrasing it, but there's no point in making things unnecessarily complicated. This doesn't sound like philosophy to me - it's just everyday language.
philgoddard United States Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 30
Explanation: The model describes how initial symptoms of grief can be amplified by the way we cope with them: on the one hand, avoidance, on the other hand, a persistent preoccupation with the deceased, which ultimately avoids dealing with the deceased's absence.
Michael Martin, MA United States Local time: 07:59 Works in field Native speaker of: German, English PRO pts in category: 116
Grading comment
Thanks to everyone; I found this a useful discussion. In the end I found it impossible to give it the Heideggerian nuances of the German. When I see a word like "Dasein," my mind clouds over and I sometimes make things unnecessarily complicated (as Phil politely points out). I used a version of Michael's translation of the sentence, which was much less clunky than my own.
Lancashireman United Kingdom Local time: 12:59 Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 51
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks, LM. I am going to suggest this to the authors (with the German phrase in brackets) as an option if they don't like the simplified version.
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