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German to English translations [PRO] Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature / Resistance and poetry
German term or phrase:Mitteilungssprache
Greetings honored Colleagues!
I understand Mitteilungssprache as "verbal communication" but would like a clearer transltion for the text below. The term is permitted to be slightly derogatory or superficial. Any brilliant ideas?
Im dunklen 20. Jahrhundert waren »Modernität und Dunkelheit der Dichtung nahezu Wechselbegriffe« der kritische Abstand zur aktuellen Mitteilungssprache, derer sich die Politik bedient, unabdingbar. Die Imperative der Moderne mögen ihre Gültigkeit heute eingebüßt haben. Den Einsichten der Rezeptionsforschung ist jedoch kaum zu widersprechen, dass Verse in schlichter Mitteilungssprache wie die rasch wechselnden Nachrichten des Tages zum Vergessen nur bestimmt sind.
Initial translation: In the dark 20th century, “in poetry, modernity and darkness were nearly synonymous,” (Peter Horst Neumann), a critical distance to the prevailing communication jargon plied by politicians was compulsory. Today, such imperatives of modernism may have lost their validity. One can hardly argue with reception analyses insights that condemn to obscurity verses written in simple messages, adapting the language of rapidly shifting daily newscasts.
Explanation: language of information might be a good option
I was going to post (as a reference) the following link where an author writing about Wittgenstein translated 'Mitteilungssprache' as 'communication-language'. Although I didn't quite like that solution I thought it might be useful to know how others translated the term. However, in the same text I also came across 'language of information' which I think is pretty spot on.
"...it is noteworthy that a distinction between expression-language (Ausdruckssprache) and communication-language (Mitteilungssprache) is already found in Spengler's Decline of the West. According to Spengler, we are engaged either in a language “which is only an expression for the world, an inward necessity springing from the longing inherent in all life to actualize itself before witnesses, to display its own presence to itself” or else in a language “that is meant to be understood by definite beings.” Expression-language is an “active transformation” of physiognomic expression, which, strictly speaking, cannot be learned, yet it is the precondition for all forms of language learning. All art, according to Spengler, is expression-language; however, he concludes that it is impossible to demarcate an exact boundary between artistic expression-language and pure communication-language. See Spengler, Decline of the West, Vol. 1, p. 115." Source: "Wittgenstein on Aestetic Understanding" by Garry L. Hagberg (ed.) https://philarchive.org/archive/GUTWOM-3v1
I can't thank you all enough for the stimulating input and assistance with this paragraph. As will see in the final translation, I have assumed many of Phil's ideas as well as Thomas' suggestion for the term itself. Björn's references are, as always, very useful in inderstanding a term. The term prose, though, also refers to an art form. Thanks to Michael for his suggestion, as well! The document is done, the client thrilled. Thank you!
The literary critic Peter Horst Neumann wrote that in the bleakest days of the twentieth century, poetry had to be dark if it was to be modern. Keeping a critical distance from the prevailing communication jargon plied by politicians was compulsory. Today, such imperatives of modernism may have lost their validity. But it is hard to argue with research in media studies showing that verses written in the language of information are as quickly forgotten as yesterday's news headlines.
...the reference to which I linked below mentions Bohuslav Havránek, who differentiated Mitteilungssprache in its three forms from Poetische Sprache. There is an English version of some of his work (see especially pp. 37 and 38): https://digilib.phil.muni.cz/bitstream/handle/11222.digilib/...
P. 37 contains classifications and p. 38 some additional notes. I'll quote from the notes on p. 38 here: "I have classed poetic language with its esthetic function as a fourth functional dialect simply because I am giving here a mere listing. There is an essential difference between the first three functional dialects listed which are always used to communicate something (have a communicative function) and between poetic language which is not primarily communicative."
I'm wondering whether the word prose would be sufficient in a context like this? "Prose is a communicative style that sounds natural and uses grammatical structure. Prose is the opposite of verse, or poetry, which employs a rhythmic structure that does not mimic ordinary speech." http://www.literarydevices.com/prose/
To Europeans, and East Germans especially, nearly the entire 20th century was a dark chapter in history. Why is this relevant, you may ask, particularly the part about East Germans.
Well, P. H. Neumann, whom Ramey quoted, was born in what used to be Germany and is now part of Poland. He grew up in Aue and Leipzig and fled to West Berlin in 1956: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Horst_Neumann
I don't know when he wrote this; could have been before 1999. However, if you put yourself in his shoes, I think you may (or may not) agree that "...in the bleakest days of the twentieth century..." could very well be overinterpretation.
Best wishes
PS I know that the author of the above paragraph is not Neumann (only the quote). This doesn't change much, though, as I assume the person for whom Ramey is translating quoted him for a reason.
To be fair, Phil had already given a good enough explanation in his first post ("I think the idea may be language intended simply to convey information rather than poetry about the higher things in life..."); I was merely trying to find a German reference to back him up.
I think Phil's "bland, factual language" is a good option!
There's just one thing I may not agree with: "The 20th century wasn't dark. Bits of it were, like the two world wars."
Maybe this is a cultural thing, Phil, but look at it from the perspective of a German.
World War I began in 1914, i.e., near the beginning of the 20th century. The Weimar Republic was doomed from the start and destroyed from within. World War II followed right after and led to a divided country.
Then, the Cold War began and brutal communist regimes kept popping up around the globe; Prague Spring was right around the corner, so was the Hungarian uprising and subsequent bloodshed. Reunification wasn't even thought possible up until that fateful day in 1989 and even then, the violence didn't stop. Think Rostock-Lichtenhagen riots and the Kosovo war.
...
Ramey Rieger (X)
Germany
ASKER
Thank you Anne!
20:37 Jan 8, 2020
Of course, I am considering intergrating parts of Phil's excellent rendition. Now, I have another reason.
...in particular with "poetry had to be dark if it was to be modern" instead of "in poetry, modernity and darkness were nearly synonymous" (= critics would consider a poetical work as 'modern poetry' only if it was 'dark', rather than "poetry/poets generally considered modernity as 'dark')<br /><br />However, since you seem to be in contact with the author, you are in a better position than us to find out what he intended to say ;-)
Ramey Rieger (X)
Germany
ASKER
Thank you Björn!
18:32 Jan 8, 2020
Yes, I know what it is, which why I am looking for some suggestions as to how it could be translated. In this rare case, it is not references I am looking for, but translation options. Any brilliant ideas in that radiant mind of yours?
I found a similar description on GoogleBooks; Mitteilungssprache is simply anything that is not Poetische Sprache, whose primary function is "ästhetisch." There may be no clear communicative intent or, in other words, the poem doesn't need to convey a clear message.
Best wishes
Ramey Rieger (X)
Germany
ASKER
Revision
17:28 Jan 8, 2020
In the dim days of the 20th century, Peter Horst Neumann stated, “in poetry, modernity and darkness were nearly synonymous.” Keeping a critical distance from the prevailing communication jargon plied by politicians was compulsory. Today, such imperatives of modernism may have lost their validity. Yet, one can hardly argue with media reception study insights ensuring that verses written in simple messages, applying the language of rapidly shifting newscasts, will soon be forgotten.
I'm still not happy with my Mitteilungssprache
Ramey Rieger (X)
Germany
ASKER
idiomatic language
17:25 Jan 8, 2020
verbal language, spoken language (but that would need a juxtaposition to written language). ACH!
I haven't "strayed" from the source text - that implies my translation is inaccurate. But it's up to you.
One other thing: you've misinterpreted the last sentence. It doesn't say "adapting the language of newscasts".
Ramey Rieger (X)
Germany
ASKER
Nice one, Phil,
17:13 Jan 8, 2020
but straying rather far from the yource text, which, this time around, I do not have the freedom to do. I did take out the parentheses, though. Idiomatic is a good tip, perhaps you'll post it? I was already considering colloquial language for Mitteilungssprache.
I still don't fully understand the argument, perhaps because we don't know what comes before this. But I suggest something along these lines:
The literary critic Peter Horst Neumann wrote that in the bleakest days of the twentieth century, poetry had to be dark if it was to be modern. It was essential to maintain a critical distance from the bland, factual language of politicians. Today, such modernist imperatives may have lost their validity. But it is hard to argue with research in media studies showing that verses written in a plain, unadorned idiom are soon forgotten, like yesterday's news headlines.
Ramey Rieger (X)
Germany
ASKER
Thank you Natalija!
15:54 Jan 8, 2020
@Phil, the brackets were the author's own idea, I merely cut and paste to avoid misspelling. the text is riddled with quotes, so I will unify them in the end. I think 'dim' is good for 'dark' as it implies past tense, unresolved events and a lack of enlightenment.
The 20th century wasn't dark. Bits of it were, like the two world wars. Maybe you could say something like "the murkier reaches of the twentieth century". I don't think you can put the guy's name in brackets, as its relevance is not clear. You have to say something like "in the words of the literary critic Peter Horst Neumann". Rezeptionsforschung is "media reception studies".
Your initial translation looks pretty good to me. However, you can play with words here, as Mitteilungssprache can be any kind of verbal communication act, way of speaking.
Ramey Rieger (X)
Germany
ASKER
Thanks Phil
14:16 Jan 8, 2020
It's a work in progress. I've considered dim for dark, or gloomy or murky or lackluster... Mitteilungssprache refers to spoken, as opposed to written, language. Simplistic, unchallenging. I'm not so thrilled with my rendition.
Based on Googling, this appears to be a concept in philosophy and cultural studies. I think the idea may be language intended simply to convey information rather than poetry about the higher things in life, but it could be more complicated than that.
I do think you should paraphrase more - your translation is a bit hard to follow. The syntax and punctuation of the first sentence aren't quite right, and I don't think you should repeat "dark" as the German does.
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
5 hrs confidence:
language of immediacy
Explanation: I discarded my old answer. Here's my new and improved solution:
In the gloomy 20th century, "modernity and somberness in poetry were inextricably intertwined", and establishing a critical distance to the language of immediacy used in politics was crucial. Today, the imperatives of modernity may have lost their grip. But that verses written in plain communicative language like the one used in the rapidly changing news cycle are not designed to be remembered is an insight from reception research that can hardly be disputed."
Michael Martin, MA United States Local time: 10:40 Works in field Native speaker of: German, English PRO pts in category: 43
Explanation: language of information might be a good option
I was going to post (as a reference) the following link where an author writing about Wittgenstein translated 'Mitteilungssprache' as 'communication-language'. Although I didn't quite like that solution I thought it might be useful to know how others translated the term. However, in the same text I also came across 'language of information' which I think is pretty spot on.
"...it is noteworthy that a distinction between expression-language (Ausdruckssprache) and communication-language (Mitteilungssprache) is already found in Spengler's Decline of the West. According to Spengler, we are engaged either in a language “which is only an expression for the world, an inward necessity springing from the longing inherent in all life to actualize itself before witnesses, to display its own presence to itself” or else in a language “that is meant to be understood by definite beings.” Expression-language is an “active transformation” of physiognomic expression, which, strictly speaking, cannot be learned, yet it is the precondition for all forms of language learning. All art, according to Spengler, is expression-language; however, he concludes that it is impossible to demarcate an exact boundary between artistic expression-language and pure communication-language. See Spengler, Decline of the West, Vol. 1, p. 115." Source: "Wittgenstein on Aestetic Understanding" by Garry L. Hagberg (ed.) https://philarchive.org/archive/GUTWOM-3v1
Thomas Pfann United Kingdom Local time: 15:40 Native speaker of: German PRO pts in category: 12
Grading comment
Wishing you all 2020 visions!
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you Thomas. Yes, this is very good option, especially regarding the reference to news casting and political jargon.
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