Deutschtum

English translation: German culture

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:Deutschtum
English translation:German culture
Entered by: Chris Rowson (X)

07:14 May 17, 2006
German to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Music
German term or phrase: Deutschtum
"Neben Franz Schubert, Johannes Brahms, Richard Wagner und dem einheimischen Karl Mayrberger setzte sich die „Preßburger Liedertafel“ speziell für die Werke Franz Liszts ein, dessen vielschichtige Persönlichkeit ungarischen Patriotismus, Deutschtum und Internationalität vereinte."

This is from a brief item about German choral music in Pressburg in the mid-19th century. I have a rough idea about what is happening there politically, and about Franz/Ferenc Liszt, I just have no idea how to translate "Deutschtum". All contributions gratefully received.
Chris Rowson (X)
Local time: 16:51
identification with German culture
Explanation:
I'm going to go out on a rather shaky limb here, but I really don't find the word "Germanness" or "Germanism" particularly appealing.

...united Hungarian patriotism, his identification with German culture and the international community.

Another option, which is perhaps safer, is "identification with Germany." But for whatever reason I don't like it as much.

Ultimately we have an artist here, so it's unlikely that he identified with German aggression, for example, especially if he was a Hungarian patriot, so with that in mind it seems plausible that what is meant here by Deutschtum is in fact primarily its culture.
Selected response from:

Henry Schroeder
United States
Local time: 11:51
Grading comment
Thanks to everyone for your contributions. I really don´t feel happy with the “German-” words, they don´t seem like real words to me, so I was happy to use Henry´s suggestion: “ … united Hungarian patriotism, German culture and internationalism.”
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
2 +8Germanness
Alan Johnson
2 +2identification with German culture
Henry Schroeder
3Germaness
BrigitteHilgner
3Germanism
Steffen Walter
3Germanity
Lori Dendy-Molz


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Germaness


Explanation:
My spontaneous idea - supported by Pons/Collins Großwörter- buch

BrigitteHilgner
Austria
Local time: 16:51
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Steffen Walter: German*n*ess
6 mins
  -> Thank you Steffen! You are perfectly right - one of my infamous typos. :-)
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +8
Germanness


Explanation:
Is how I would probably interpret this. I see it as being similar to his "ungarischen Patriotismus". He was both a Hungarian and a German patriot. But this is mere guesswork as I know nothing about classical musicians.

Alan Johnson
Germany
Local time: 16:51
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  David Moore (X)
3 mins

agree  Steffen Walter: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9807E4D7153DF...
5 mins

agree  Matthias Quaschning-Kirsch
11 mins

agree  Alison Jenner
45 mins

agree  Francis Lee (X): Liszt was a classic binational product of Austria-Hungary - plus his daughter married Wagner; "Germanness" is fine IMO
1 hr

agree  Bianca Jacobsohn: FYI far more hits on googlefight for Germanness than Germanity. Just for a bit of fun...
1 hr

agree  Ingeborg Gowans (X)
4 hrs

agree  Maureen Millington-Brodie
8 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Germanism


Explanation:
See examples:
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/Summaries/V75I4P57-1.htm
http://www.bookrags.com/ebooks/4234/
(ironically enough, these comments relate to Richard Wagner not Franz Liszt)

Steffen Walter
Germany
Local time: 16:51
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 15

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  David Moore (X): It's just BECAUSE Wagner was German that my gut tells me this not the correct way to express the "Deutschtum" concept as displayed by the foreigner, Liszt.
3 mins
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

24 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +2
identification with German culture


Explanation:
I'm going to go out on a rather shaky limb here, but I really don't find the word "Germanness" or "Germanism" particularly appealing.

...united Hungarian patriotism, his identification with German culture and the international community.

Another option, which is perhaps safer, is "identification with Germany." But for whatever reason I don't like it as much.

Ultimately we have an artist here, so it's unlikely that he identified with German aggression, for example, especially if he was a Hungarian patriot, so with that in mind it seems plausible that what is meant here by Deutschtum is in fact primarily its culture.

Henry Schroeder
United States
Local time: 11:51
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 36
Grading comment
Thanks to everyone for your contributions. I really don´t feel happy with the “German-” words, they don´t seem like real words to me, so I was happy to use Henry´s suggestion: “ … united Hungarian patriotism, German culture and internationalism.”

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Frosty: Could be, but that doesn`t mean this is not the most appropriate translation!
2 hrs
  -> The general consensus however does not seem to be with us.

agree  Ian M-H (X)
2 days 2 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

29 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Germanity


Explanation:
...another option

I will argue that Nietzsche's understanding of Germanity is more ... Zarathustra's Germanity is of paramount importance to determining the cultural ...
muse.jhu.edu/journals/journal_of_nietzsche_studies/v027/27.1westfall.html

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 32 mins (2006-05-17 07:46:18 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

a few refs in context:

(Josef Danhauser, Liszt am Flugel, 1840, Nationalgalerie Berlin.) ... As we'll see, the American course stands as an expression of Germanity against the ...
mheffley.web.wesleyan.edu/almatexts/almamusicology/germanchaps2-4/almachap2a.htm - 337k - Cached - Similar pages

almacdnarr
... giving a kind of symmetry of ritual to the LP's concept, and a nice slice of Germanity. ... and propagated through Chopin and especially Liszt. ...
mheffley.web.wesleyan.edu/almatexts/almamusicosophy/almacdnarr.htm - 513k - Cached - Similar pages

The Project Gutenberg EBook of Richard Wagner, by John F. Runciman ...
As yet I have said nothing about his acquaintance with Liszt. ... 1844--in its assertion of the Germanity of Weber and Weber's music; and his deep joy that ...
www.gutenberg.org/files/16431/16431.txt

Lori Dendy-Molz
Germany
Local time: 16:51
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 16

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Ian M-H (X): I'm not convinced that this is more than a made-up word, which may work in some contexts but is probably best avoided
2 days 2 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.


See also:
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search