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Kampfprediger

English translation: hate merchant, warmonger,

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:Kampfprediger
English translation:hate merchant, warmonger,
Entered by: Hilary Davies Shelby

14:00 Mar 6, 2005
German to English translations [PRO]
Government / Politics / war/politics
German term or phrase: Kampfprediger
description of Osama b. L. as a "hager arabischer Kampfprediger".

Any ideas? I feel sure I am about to kick myself, but i am drawing a total blank!

Many thanks ;-)
Hilary Davies Shelby
United States
Local time: 12:22
hate merchant
Explanation:
common term in the press

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Note added at 22 hrs 43 mins (2005-03-07 12:43:17 GMT)
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Plenty of answers to synthesise from here.
For Kampf- the best translation might be \'bellicose\' (in preference to \'belligerent\')
For \'-prediger\' the best one on offer is Frosty\'s \'demagogue\'

\'bellicose demagogue\'
Selected response from:

Lancashireman
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:22
Grading comment
This was such a close thing for me - i went back and forth between "warmonger" and "hate merchant" for days! There were a lot of good suggestions, many thanks to everyone for your input!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +7advocate of war, warmonger, battlemonger, battle preacher....
David Moore (X)
4 +1hate merchant
Lancashireman
5warmonger
lenzer
4sabre rattler
Frosty
3belligerent
Rebekah Wils (X)
3champion/advocate of armed struggle
Francis Lee (X)
3belligerent preacher
Elimar Orlopp
2progenitor of war
Jonathan MacKerron


  

Answers


3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +7
advocate of war, warmonger, battlemonger, battle preacher....


Explanation:
One of these may fit...

David Moore (X)
Local time: 19:22
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 49

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  JeffFish (X): I like warmonger; the rest seem stilted (or at least unfamiliar)
1 min
agree  David Hollywood: with Jeff on "warmonger" (spot on :))
8 mins
agree  Francis Lee (X): warmonger // Frosty: if there's one thing we can surely agree on, it's that the man wants war (it's just that innocent others are "getting it")
10 mins
agree  Rebekah Wils (X): warmonger is good
10 mins
agree  margarete: with warmonger
22 mins
agree  Richard Benham: How about the more or less literal "preacher of war"? I think it is important to get the pseudo-religious element into it.
26 mins
agree  Nancy Arrowsmith: warmonger
41 mins
disagree  Frosty: Having been personally involved in a couple of them, I would be very reluctant to describe anti-terrorist or internal security ops as `war´, especially in a classical sense! This I rate as not much more than GWB rhetoric.
54 mins
agree  Ellen Zittinger
8 hrs
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5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
progenitor of war


Explanation:
another option

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Note added at 7 mins (2005-03-06 14:07:43 GMT)
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rabble-rouser

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Note added at 7 mins (2005-03-06 14:08:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

demagogue

Jonathan MacKerron
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 85

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Richard Benham: "Progenitor" is not the goods at all. An ancestor of war? Other suggestions leave out any mention of war....//In the online Webster at least, a progenitor is an ancestor or precursor. Even your purported definition doesn't support your answer.
4 mins
  -> Webster for progenitor = "one that precedes"
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15 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
belligerent


Explanation:
(as a noun) - another option

Rebekah Wils (X)
Local time: 18:22
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Francis Lee (X): I thought of that, but it doesn't quite fit here - as an adjective or noun?// Doh! Sorry! But the noun form (strictly speaking) just means "Kriegspartei"
3 mins
  -> as a noun, that's what I wrote :-)
neutral  Richard Benham: With Francis. It doesn't fit at all here, either as a noun or as an adjective. A belligerent is just one of the parties to a war, while the adjective just means pugnacious, and has nothing to do with preaching.
18 mins
  -> Well, you know, one tries :-)
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21 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
champion/advocate of armed struggle


Explanation:
or perhaps a "caller-to-arms"



Francis Lee (X)
Local time: 19:22
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 88
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
hate merchant


Explanation:
common term in the press

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs 43 mins (2005-03-07 12:43:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Plenty of answers to synthesise from here.
For Kampf- the best translation might be \'bellicose\' (in preference to \'belligerent\')
For \'-prediger\' the best one on offer is Frosty\'s \'demagogue\'

\'bellicose demagogue\'

Lancashireman
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:22
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 208
Grading comment
This was such a close thing for me - i went back and forth between "warmonger" and "hate merchant" for days! There were a lot of good suggestions, many thanks to everyone for your input!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  JeffFish (X): good one of you decide against warmonger for rhetorical reasons (see Frosty)
45 mins
neutral  Elimar Orlopp: First I do not understand why you came up with hate merchant because it was not asked what is said about OBL in the press, secondly i'd like to know why you prefer bellicose thirdly why is preacher not perfect for Prediger?
22 hrs
  -> 1. This is an expression current in UK media so will not jar on a reader who follows this story 2. For bellicose/belligerent see Oxford English Dictionary 3. OBL is not a ‘cleric’. (Hope I've answered fully)
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13 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
sabre rattler


Explanation:
But being an Arab, would he not be more accurately described as a scimitar rattler? ;-)

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Note added at 50 mins (2005-03-06 14:50:29 GMT)
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Amendment 1 : a `sabre rattling demagogue´. Islam is after all a mixture of political and religious beliefs.

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Note added at 23 hrs 41 mins (2005-03-07 13:41:58 GMT)
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Amendment 2 : Talking about war - as published today on the BBC Site:

\"In the aftermath of 11 September, Muslim minorities in the EU have experienced growing distrust and hostility,\" says Aaron Rhodes, IHF executive director.

\"As the fight against terrorism has been stepped up ....

Note: a fight against terrorism, not a war!! As already intimated, flying jacket Georgie Boy and his gung-ho trigger-happy Marines might want to call it a war - but it isn`t really.

Frosty
Local time: 19:22
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 20

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Richard Benham: This captures some of the meaning, but loses the pseudo-religious element, which, I think, is important.
18 mins
neutral  JeffFish (X): not bad, if it weren't for the fact that he's done more than rattle; this implies harmlessness to me (and the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/state/monarchs_leaders/cousins_...
2 hrs
  -> Not really! There was a (short!) time when Adolf`s rantings were considered to be no more than sabre-rattling, and the Brit Empire thrived on it - with no qualms about swinging them on occasion!
neutral  Elimar Orlopp: scimitar (Krummsäbel) ist witzig. Dieser Kampfprediger ist aber doch mehr ernst zu nehmen im Falle von Osama als ein bloßer Säbelrassler.
5 hrs
  -> Sure, he has to be taken seriously. Don`t you think a little humour/derision will help cut him down to size - as used against Adolf, Musso & Tojo in WWII. And, sabre-rattling is not always harmless, it is often the prelude to bloodthirsty action!
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
belligerent preacher


Explanation:
I already made a comment on "belligerent". Why not use this unknown "Zusammensetzung" since "Kampfprediger" is as well unknown and - for some good reason - a kind of made up term.
Does my own political standpoint matter here? I don't think so, but since one seems to like to reveal oneself, I may add that my first thought was that "Kampfprediger" would refer to Christian Fundamentalists.


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Note added at 14 hrs 4 mins (2005-03-07 04:04:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Thank you for the explanation about the use of belligerent. But \"Kampf\" means not \"war\" either, it means firstly \"just\" \"fight\", the verb \"kämpfen\" as well means the same, even the title of Hitlers well known book \"Mein Kampf\" does not change that. Surely you have fights in wars as well all the time, but \"Kampf\" is connected as well to \"inner fight\" and just \"conflict\".

So I take it that the explanation to your neutral response is actually backing up my suggestion.

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Note added at 1 day 1 hr 4 mins (2005-03-07 15:05:07 GMT)
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I do not understand a lot about translation, I agree, and I like this forum because I can learn from my colleagues, that means YOU, but now I do not understand many of the comments and suggestions made. Why? Don\'t we look for an adequate expression from a given word rather than to go by our own ideas about the subject? Is translation then an interpretation about how OBL should be treated as an subject rather than to go with what the term conceals itself in the source language and find an appropriate term in the target language???

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Note added at 1 day 1 hr 7 mins (2005-03-07 15:07:57 GMT)
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Ah, and one last thing to the asker: I think it must be a misspelling that you posted \"hager(er) arabischer Kampfprediger\", missing letters in paranthesis.

Elimar Orlopp
Germany
Local time: 19:22
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Francis Lee (X): "belligerent preacher" would merely imply extremely aggressive, not (despite the Latin root) necessarily calling for war
1 hr
  -> I should have posted my response here but it was longer than the space available here
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1 day 1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
warmonger


Explanation:
for 'kampfhetzer', which is close enough, from my good old cassell's.

lenzer
Local time: 19:22
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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