Das Selbstverständnis dieser Bewegung

English translation: The self-evident raison d'être of this movement

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:Das Selbstverständnis dieser Bewegung
English translation:The self-evident raison d'être of this movement
Entered by: Mats Wiman

08:26 Mar 18, 2003
German to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Government / Politics
German term or phrase: Das Selbstverständnis dieser Bewegung
Gemeint ist die Notwendigkeit des Bestehens einer politischen Bewegung.
Wie könnte man das im Englischen ausdrücken?
Cécile Kellermayr
Austria
Local time: 16:29
The self-evident raison d'être of this movement
Explanation:
is worth a try
Selected response from:

Mats Wiman
Sweden
Local time: 16:29
Grading comment
3 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +1The self-evident raison d'être of this movement
Mats Wiman
4 +1Perhaps
gangels (X)
5 -1the self-conception of this movement
Fabian Stoffers
4The self-evidency of the movement
Ron Stelter
5 -1an obvious imperative, [This movement was]
Maureen Holm, J.D., LL.M.
4This movement was an obvious imperative.
Maureen Holm, J.D., LL.M.
3indispensability
Cilian O'Tuama


Discussion entries: 4





  

Answers


53 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
The self-evident raison d'être of this movement


Explanation:
is worth a try


    Oxford Concise+MW
Mats Wiman
Sweden
Local time: 16:29
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in SwedishSwedish
PRO pts in category: 11

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Robert Kleemaier: If the context is unclear, you might consider inserting 'political' before 'movement'.
5 hrs

agree  Ellen Zittinger
10 hrs

neutral  Maureen Holm, J.D., LL.M.: Sorry, but this does not capture the notion that the movement itself obviously had to heppen, but rather only says that it's obvious what it's object is.
14 hrs

disagree  Kim Metzger: Where did "self-evident" come from? It's an obvious false friend of Selbstverständnis. Your remarks to Maureen are condescending and arrogant. Most people consider your "commandment" regarding "sorry" to be shallow and narrow-minded.
1502 days
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
the self-conception of this movement


Explanation:
die hits in google sollten Aufschluß darüber geben, ob dies in Deinen Kontext paßt.

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Note added at 2003-03-18 14:27:04 (GMT)
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Ich glaube, daß Cécile Selbstverständnis und Selbstverständlichkeit durcheinander gebracht hat.


    Reference: http://www.google.de/search?sourceid=navclient&hl=de&q=%22se...
Fabian Stoffers
Germany
Local time: 16:29
Native speaker of: German
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Cilian O'Tuama: if "Notwendigkeit des Bestehens" is what is intended, it's not the same as 'self-conception'
2 hrs
  -> Right. But "Selbstverständnis" does not have this meaning in German.

neutral  Maureen Holm, J.D., LL.M.: "Self-conception" conveys little but confusion to this English-speaker.
13 hrs
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
indispensability


Explanation:
if you're sure that 'Notwendigkeit des Bestehens' is meant. But why didn't they use Selbstverständlichkeit instead?

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Note added at 2003-03-18 13:31:12 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

to make it stronger, you could use \"sheer indispensability\"

Cilian O'Tuama
Germany
Local time: 16:29
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 24

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Fabian Stoffers: agree to your translation of "Notwendigkeit des Bestehens". Disagree to "Notwendigkeit des Bestehens" having anything to do with "Selbstverständnis".
1 hr
  -> I find it odd too, but that's what Cecile says
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Perhaps


Explanation:
The notion of inevitability inherent in this movement

the [perceived] quintessential indispensibility of the movement

gangels (X)
Local time: 09:29
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 47

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Maureen Holm, J.D., LL.M.: Much closer, more elegant, in my view as to inevitability. Not so keen on indispensAbility.
10 hrs
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12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
The self-evidency of the movement


Explanation:
Kurz und buendig...

Ron Stelter
Local time: 10:29
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Maureen Holm, J.D., LL.M.: Maybe, but not English to me.
2 hrs
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15 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
an obvious imperative, [This movement was]


Explanation:
Umformulierung erforderlich. Hauptwörter wie sie im deutschen verwendet werden wirken sehr schwerfällig im englischen.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-03-19 20:25:54 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

3/19

Dear Maureen,



I ask you to forgive me for lashing out at you:

\"disagree (to you suggestion)

For someone who is so condescending and judgemental, your suggestion does not exactly lift this exercise to new pinnacles of linguistics. \'Umformuliering erforderlich\' indeed!\"



It was rude and unpolished and I want to elaborate on my grounds for making such a comment.

I am the author of \'My 10 commandments in the KudoZ arena\' and \'Confessions of a point grabber\' (see Forums) and I have been an active KudoZer since July 2000 so I have given this field quite a lot of thought, leading me to make my voice heard if someone does what I feel is the wrong behaviour.



The worst comment I know in this field is \'Sorry\', as a rule used by native speakers to non-natives. It\'s a condescending comment being interpreted as \"Don\'t you (non-natives) dare to encroach on territory where you really should not be allowed to move at all\". This attitude has been scolded by many, including me, especially as many brilliant answers have been forwarded by non-natives.

Two of the worst users of this comment have actually been expelled from ProZ.com (not only because of this. Please do not misconstrue this as a threat). Many have felt that it destroys the friendly and helpful tone that dominates and should dominate this help service.

It happens that new participants believes it is up to them to comment (often infavourably) on the suggestion of others.

That is a misconception.

\'Disagree\' or \'neutral\' are intended to be used with discretion and should be acompanied by specific criticism to be useful. \'Wrong!\', \'not BE\', \'not USE\', \'Maybe, but not English to me\' does not add much.

As a disagreer one should reasonably feel obliged to produce THE superior suggestion.

You actually fulfilled that last obligation although your suggestion was not impressive, but rather confusing.



Please try to enjoy this service by making suggestions, not by commenting on others.



Best regards



Mats J C Wiman

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Note added at 2003-03-19 20:33:29 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

\"Maybe, but not English to me\" was a tease directed to Ron Stelter, a compatriot, who I figured would take it as meant.
\"Sorry\" is \"Sorry, but that doesn\'t work for me.\" It\'s intended, if anything, to soften the neutral or disagree.

Maureen Holm, J.D., LL.M.
United States
Local time: 11:29
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 3

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Mats Wiman: For someone who is so condescending and judgemental, your suggestion does not exactly lift this exercise to new pinnacles of linguistics. 'Umformuliering erforderlich' indeed!
4 hrs
  -> "Umformulierung erforderlich" did not refer to anyone's answer. Was a suggestion as to syntax modif. in target language.
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1 day 12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
This movement was an obvious imperative.


Explanation:
"Gemeint ist die Notwendigkeit des Bestehens einer politischen Bewegung."

Maureen Holm, J.D., LL.M.
United States
Local time: 11:29
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 3
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