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Ministerpräsident a.D.

English translation: former Minister-President

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:Ministerpräsident a.D.
English translation:former Minister-President
Entered by: Ian M-H (X)

08:17 Dec 1, 2005
German to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Government / Politics
German term or phrase: Ministerpräsident a.D.
Prof. Dr. h. c. Lothar Späth, Ministerpräsident a.D.

Thanks.
johnduke
former Minister President
Explanation:
Depending upon the context, a natural way of referring to LS in English would be:

[Professor] Lothar Späth, former Minister President, Baden-Württemberg

I'd drop the "Dr h.c.", and possibly the "Professor" as well, unless the context is one where it would be customary to use these in English. I'd add "Baden-Württemberg", on the other hand, as without it a non-specialist audience outside Germany probably won't know (whereas in Germany most people have heard of LS).

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Note added at 36 mins (2005-12-01 08:53:39 GMT)
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"Prime Minister" is of course another option, as suggested by Emilie while I was typing my answer: "former Prime Minister of the [German federal] state of Baden-Württemberg". It all depends on context and purpose...

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Note added at 43 mins (2005-12-01 09:00:56 GMT)
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Other answerers here suggest "of a Land", "of a German state" and "of a German Federal State" - it strikes me as more natural to name the place. Just as we'd refer to Bill Clinton, for example, as "former US President" and not "former president of a big country".



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Note added at 1 day 1 hr 48 mins (2005-12-02 10:06:35 GMT) Post-grading
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As Nicole notes, it's perfectly possible to be a "former" office-holder without being retired - in UK usage I think we reserve "ret" and "ret'd" for senior military officers who keep their titles although they have left active service. For politicians and captains of industry we use "former".
Selected response from:

Ian M-H (X)
United States
Local time: 19:21
Grading comment
As I need to keep it official I'll go for this one. Thanks to everyone for all their input.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +4former Minister President
Ian M-H (X)
4 +1former Prime Minister of Baden-Württemberg
Nicole Schnell
4 +1former state premier (retired)
Francis Lee (X)
4minister-president of a German state (ret.)
Monika Leit
4Prime Minister (ret.) - s. unten
Emilie
4 -1Leader of a German Federal State, retired
Сергей Лузан
2Minister President of a Land (ret.)
Jonathan MacKerron


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
Ministerpräsident a.D.
Minister President of a Land (ret.)


Explanation:
Bundestagsglossar

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Note added at 3 mins (2005-12-01 08:21:30 GMT)
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sorry, make that (retd.)

Jonathan MacKerron
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 85

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Francis Lee (X): indeed it is, but the Bundestagsglossar is not a definitive source IMO
3 hrs
  -> and what is, google hits?
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4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
Ministerpräsident a.D.
Leader of a German Federal State, retired


Explanation:
.

Сергей Лузан
Russian Federation
Local time: 02:21
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Jonathan MacKerron: "Leader" is perhaps too close to "Führer" for German sensibilities...
11 mins
  -> Hardly, Jonathan. & the source is English, isn't it?:) "leader of the German Federal State" juedischejugend2005.ag.fh-konstanz.de/en/project.html www.bavarian-online.de/ E-BAYERNSERVICE/E-Starkbierzeit.htm www.lbst.de/presse/Speech_Joerg_Schindler.pdf
disagree  Ian M-H (X): definitely not "leader" // The refs you've added above are *not* native English - http://lbst.de/presse/Speech_Joerg_Schindler.pdf is IMO not natural-sounding English
31 mins
neutral  Francis Lee (X): it's not as such wrong, but when it comes to the question of taste, I'd certainly not write this / "former B-W state premier" is pretty unambiguous, I'd say
3 hrs
  -> It's more the question of target audience than the one of taste. Read your answer. 'state premier' sounds a bit ambiguous, don't you find, Francis?// B-W state premier" does, but it wasn'y in the origina, was it?
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15 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Ministerpräsident a.D.
minister-president of a German state (ret.)


Explanation:
Gemäß Pons, Langenscheidt.

Monika Leit
Local time: 01:21
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Francis Lee (X): "minister-president of a German state" - sounds a tad vague, nöh?
3 hrs
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33 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Ministerpräsident a.D.
Prime Minister (ret.) - s. unten


Explanation:
Vielleicht könnte man PRIME MINISTER (ret.) nehmen und anschliessend of (m. E. Baden-Würt., oder?)sagen. Also das Bundesland erwähnen. So findet es man auch oft im Internet. Diskussionen darüber gibt es ja genug!

Viel Erfolg!



Emilie
Native speaker of: Native in PortuguesePortuguese

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Francis Lee (X): yes, it's often used, but I find the term confusing when not referring to a national leader
3 hrs
  -> Yes... That's why I'd give the additional information and mention the "Bundesland". Thanks!
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14 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Ministerpräsident a.D.
former Prime Minister of Baden-Württemberg


Explanation:
a.D. doesn't necessarily mean that a person is retired and "of a Federal State" sounds somewhat funny. I would go with the full title.

Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 16:21
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 16

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Ian M-H (X): I just have to agree with this - I couldn't have put it better myself ;-)
11 hrs
  -> Thanks, Ian and good morning again! I remembered this one from an NYU assignment. M.P. get's more Googles, though. Have a great day! :-))
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33 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +4
Ministerpräsident a.D.
former Minister President


Explanation:
Depending upon the context, a natural way of referring to LS in English would be:

[Professor] Lothar Späth, former Minister President, Baden-Württemberg

I'd drop the "Dr h.c.", and possibly the "Professor" as well, unless the context is one where it would be customary to use these in English. I'd add "Baden-Württemberg", on the other hand, as without it a non-specialist audience outside Germany probably won't know (whereas in Germany most people have heard of LS).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 36 mins (2005-12-01 08:53:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Prime Minister" is of course another option, as suggested by Emilie while I was typing my answer: "former Prime Minister of the [German federal] state of Baden-Württemberg". It all depends on context and purpose...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 43 mins (2005-12-01 09:00:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


Other answerers here suggest "of a Land", "of a German state" and "of a German Federal State" - it strikes me as more natural to name the place. Just as we'd refer to Bill Clinton, for example, as "former US President" and not "former president of a big country".



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 1 hr 48 mins (2005-12-02 10:06:35 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

As Nicole notes, it's perfectly possible to be a "former" office-holder without being retired - in UK usage I think we reserve "ret" and "ret'd" for senior military officers who keep their titles although they have left active service. For politicians and captains of industry we use "former".

Ian M-H (X)
United States
Local time: 19:21
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 48
Grading comment
As I need to keep it official I'll go for this one. Thanks to everyone for all their input.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Frosty
1 hr
agree  Barbara Wiegel: this is the offical translation by German govt. agencies, in the "Handbuch der Internationalen Rechts- und Verwaltungssprache" it is, however, spelled as "Minister-President"
1 hr
  -> Thanks for the ref - and, yes, the version with a hyphen is more frequently used
neutral  Francis Lee (X): not keen on either M-P or PM; the German govt. may use the terms, but the English-speaking media generally do not
3 hrs
  -> If John's translating journalism then he's got a lot of leeway - but if he isn't then I think it's got to be M-P or PM.
agree  Lancashireman: 'Retired politician' would work, but with elected offices it has to be 'former'
4 hrs
agree  Rebecca Garber
6 hrs
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Ministerpräsident a.D.
former state premier (retired)


Explanation:
Depends on your context. I thought "state premier" was the standard term for the Ministerpräsident of a Land. Both "minister president" or "prime minister" would IMO be confusing.

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Note added at 3 hrs 15 mins (2005-12-01 11:32:42 GMT)
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"Erwin Teufel, state premier of Baden-Wuerttemberg."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1019422/posts (BBC source)
"state Premier Bob Carr" (of New South Wales)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/2435145.stm

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Note added at 3 hrs 31 mins (2005-12-01 11:49:27 GMT)
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"Bavarian state premier Edmund Stoiber"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3126480.stm
"former Social Democrat (SPD) leader of North Rhine-Westphalia, Peer Steinbrueck"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4337424.stm

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Note added at 3 hrs 32 mins (2005-12-01 11:50:18 GMT)
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Actually, the archive title for the last one was: "A powerful former Social Democrat state premier"

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Note added at 3 hrs 49 mins (2005-12-01 12:07:19 GMT)
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And all these and many more refer to Lothar Späth either as former (state) premier of Baden-Würtemmberg or B-W state premier:
http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2000/1009/germany.h...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051111/wl_nm/germany_talks_dc_3 (Reuters source)
http://www.rena.com/pmtope.pdf
http://www.offis.de/presse/jahresbericht/jb2000/jb00_meilens...

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Note added at 4 hrs 7 mins (2005-12-01 12:25:35 GMT)
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So that's what I'd call him: former Baden-Würtemmberg (state) premier Loddar S.
or, if it's a name on a list:
(Prof. Dr.) Loddar S, former state premier of B-W
.... (but probably better not to mention the honorary prof./doctor bit)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs 14 mins (2005-12-01 12:32:30 GMT)
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http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/11/02/germany.talks...
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/02/02/germany.elex/

Yahoo-ing:
"state premier" + Stoiber + Reuters = 366 hits
"minister president" + Stoiber + Reuters = 73 hits
And I trust Reuters ...

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Note added at 4 hrs 19 mins (2005-12-01 12:37:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

And it was definitely the standard term at my former employers Deutsche Welle (stop sniggering) and the English FAZ - well, when it was still around ;-(

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Note added at 1 day 2 hrs 49 mins (2005-12-02 11:07:14 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

I'd still consider this the "official" version, but there you go ...

Francis Lee (X)
Local time: 01:21
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 88

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Ian M-H (X): This really does depend on context/register - your points are well taken, but "premier" is used by media, not bureaucrats. So it depends who John's working for... // I'd keep it formal myself, but John's getting paid for this one, not us ;-)
1 hr
  -> Hmmm ... but at a conference it certainly wouldn't be uncouth to refer to him as such, oder? / exactly, and I see nowt informal about "state premier" 8-\
agree  TonyTK: Or even "First Minister". And I'd use former rather than rtd. - anyway, Loddar resigned after some kind of "amigo" affair, innit.
1 hr
  -> yes, "retired" sounds like he's watering his garden gnomes etc.
neutral  Barbara Wiegel: The govt. term M-P is used so as not to confuse the position with a head of govt. of another state; M-P is the "special" term for Landeschefs and PM the term for foreign heads of govt.
2 hrs
  -> Well, I think anything with minister and/or president is confusing to those outside Germany - and Reuters/BBC seem to agree
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