vieles ist noch im Enstehen krank;

English translation: misconceived from the outset

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase: vieles ist noch im Enstehen krank;
English translation:misconceived from the outset
Entered by: Chris Foster

15:37 Mar 10, 2020
German to English translations [PRO]
General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters / 1940s usage
German term or phrase: vieles ist noch im Enstehen krank;
This from a letter written in Munich in September 1946 to a relation in an internment camp in England: "Wohl erlebt man gute Ansätze vieles ist noch im Enstehen krank; vor allem fehlt der große Geist und der Schrei nach Brot und Weib übertönt alles andere. "

Does "krank" mean simply "wrong" or more "bizarre/weird"? Any insights gratefully received....
Chris Foster
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:42
misconceived from the outset
Explanation:
Camp management may have been chaotic. Perhaps, measures to improve conditions were well-intentioned but messy or not workable in practice.

The letter writer seems to use "krank" as a figure of speech, not in its literal sense.

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Note added at 1 hr (2020-03-10 17:09:57 GMT)
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Compare with use of the phrase in this source:
"Meist wird das Ansuchen um Aufnahme einer Entgegnung ignoriert oder gar höhnisch abgefertigt. Man hat deshalb sogar besondere Zeitschriften für „Antikritiken“ hegründet, natürlich ohne jeden Erfolg. Solche Zeitschriften sind gleich im Entstehen krank und erlöschen nach wenigen Monaten klanglos." https://books.google.com/books?id=0I0tAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA702&lpg=...
Selected response from:

Michael Martin, MA
United States
Local time: 13:42
Grading comment
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this. I found Michael's quotation quite persuasive- the "im Entstehen" is important. It is easy now with the benefit of hindsight to make assumptions which are not actually supported by the text- I certainly read perhaps too much moralising into it. On the other hand, there was nothing to suggest impatience for more radical change. For the record we bought this original letter from Ebay for £2.50!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +2doomed from the start
Chris Pr
3 +1misconceived from the outset
Michael Martin, MA
2crippling recovery/the process
Ramey Rieger (X)


Discussion entries: 13





  

Answers


21 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
misconceived from the outset


Explanation:
Camp management may have been chaotic. Perhaps, measures to improve conditions were well-intentioned but messy or not workable in practice.

The letter writer seems to use "krank" as a figure of speech, not in its literal sense.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2020-03-10 17:09:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Compare with use of the phrase in this source:
"Meist wird das Ansuchen um Aufnahme einer Entgegnung ignoriert oder gar höhnisch abgefertigt. Man hat deshalb sogar besondere Zeitschriften für „Antikritiken“ hegründet, natürlich ohne jeden Erfolg. Solche Zeitschriften sind gleich im Entstehen krank und erlöschen nach wenigen Monaten klanglos." https://books.google.com/books?id=0I0tAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA702&lpg=...

Michael Martin, MA
United States
Local time: 13:42
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 98
Grading comment
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this. I found Michael's quotation quite persuasive- the "im Entstehen" is important. It is easy now with the benefit of hindsight to make assumptions which are not actually supported by the text- I certainly read perhaps too much moralising into it. On the other hand, there was nothing to suggest impatience for more radical change. For the record we bought this original letter from Ebay for £2.50!
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks for the prompt reply, Michael. BTW, the author is not in a camp, he is in Munich and had just resumed his university studies so I assume he is referring to events in Munich (reconstruction efforts etc.).

Asker: He goes on to say: " Innerlich leer und ausgehölt ziehen die meisten eben die breite Strasse, weil sie wenig Anstrengung bringt weil sie vom Geiste nichts wissen, weil dies leichter ist and weil man dabei gut fährt. " I think he is viewing some of the rapid changes with moral disapproval, so perhaps more critical than "misconceived".


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Ramey Rieger (X): Hey Michael! Look again. The letter is TO the relation in a camp and FROM a relation in Munich. Easy to oversee.
11 mins
  -> I suspect my solution still applies. Whether you're enduring the indignities of an internment camp or rebuilding your life in the rubble of Munich, ill-conceived action by those in charge will impact people's lives more than in 'normal' times.

neutral  philgoddard: I like "from the outset", but I'm not sure "misconceived" is quite the right idea. Isn't it that the recovery efforts are not working very well because the problem is so huge?
49 mins
  -> "Krank" looks to me like an expression of criticism; 'krank' equals wrong, inappropriate, ill-fated, bound for disaster etc.

agree  Adrian MM.: though 'misconceived' might strike a sour note with some readers.
2 days 4 hrs
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9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
doomed from the start


Explanation:
Combined with the leading "Wohl erlebt man gute Ansätze..." this sounds like a 1946 account of the uncertainties of "what happens next" and "where do we go from here": the path forward from this lowpoint...

"Although positive initiatives are forthcoming, many/most are anyway doomed from the start....

vor allem fehlt der große Geist -> dispirited /low morale

und der Schrei nach Brot und Weib übertönt alles andere -> the basics still remain priority



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Note added at 9 hrs (2020-03-11 00:47:18 GMT)
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Just to add: The most *immediate predicament* of organsing the post-war necessities essential to daily life amidst such challenging circumstances...

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Note added at 9 hrs (2020-03-11 00:52:06 GMT)
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"vieles ist noch im Enstehen krank" -> false starts that have brought no improvements

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Note added at 9 hrs (2020-03-11 00:58:16 GMT)
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And the idea debating the finer points of "reconstruction" in 1946 is totally absurd....

Chris Pr
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:42
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Notes to answerer
Asker: Hi Chris, Thanks for your contribution. As I had the benefit of the whole letter, I have the impression that the author (who incidentally admitted that: "fehlt mir auch die volle Orientierung" that too many of the changes were being implemented without enough proper consideration. If you look at the timeline for Munich 1946 you can see that fairly major changes were taking place.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  philgoddard
11 hrs

agree  Thayenga
12 hrs
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30 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
crippling recovery/the process


Explanation:
Low CL since I'm not really certain about how 'im Entstehen' is meant here.

(Although) We do see some positive developments/approaches, much is crippling the recovery/process. There is a dire lack of a greater spirit/higher purpose;the common/general roar for bread and wench is far louder/drowns all else out.

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Note added at 16 hrs (2020-03-11 07:43:12 GMT)
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Good morning Chris,
The author is certainly offended by the people's vacuity and resignation.
Most people trudge through the avenue with hollow resignation, unwilling to make an effort, ignorant of the mind's power, taking a painless path easier to travel.
And, by the way, I'm Ramey Rieger, not Anne Schulz

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Note added at 18 hrs (2020-03-11 09:43:58 GMT)
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No, not morally! It's apathy the author is getting at. Resignation, disinterest, ignorance. He is more frustrated than holier-than-thou.

Ramey Rieger (X)
Germany
Local time: 18:42
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 116
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks Ramey, interesting take on "krank"-I also like "higher purpose".

Asker: @Anne Schulz: Hi Anne, Thanks for your contribution. Yes it took a while to transcribe the handwriting- I think it was actually a form of Kurrentschrift rather than Sütterlin. Have you read the subsequent sentence which is attached to Michael's response? I would be interested to know whether you think I am correct in detecting moral disapproval?

Asker: Good Morning Ramey, Sorry about the comment going to the wrong person. I just wondered whether in this case "krank" could imply something more like the English 'perverse' equivalent to morally degenerate?

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