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schicksalskundige Kampfjungfrau

English translation: fateful/prophetic warrior maidens

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:schicksalskundige Kampfjungfrau
English translation:fateful/prophetic warrior maidens
Entered by: Veronika McLaren

12:06 Nov 3, 2008
German to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Folklore
German term or phrase: schicksalskundige Kampfjungfrau
This is from the bibliographical information for a collection of Austrian fairytales. I can find various versions of this story but I'm not sure what to make of this phrase:

"Das in ähnlichen Varianten in ganz Österreich bekannte Märchen bezieht sich auf eine nordgermanische Überlieferung: Die **schicksalskundigen Kampfjungfrauen** Fenja und Menja setzen die Mühle Grotti in Gang, die zunächst Glück und Wohlstand mahlt, schliefllich aber durch ungeheure Mengen Salz die Schiffe zum Sinken bringt."
Rachel Ward
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:42
fateful/prophetic warrior maidens
Explanation:
This interpretation seems possible as well. See the wikipedia synopsis of the Norse poem.
Selected response from:

Veronika McLaren
Local time: 14:42
Grading comment
This works best for me, but thanks all!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +1oracular valkyrie
CGK
3 +2foreknowing (mighty) maiden
Barbara Wiebking
3 +2fateful/prophetic warrior maidens
Veronika McLaren
3battle maiden acquainted with misfortune
LP Schumacher
2 +1prophetic virago
BrigitteHilgner
Summary of reference entries provided
Poetic Edda: Grottesöngr
Rebecca Garber

Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


56 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
schicksalskundige Kampjungfrau
battle maiden acquainted with misfortune


Explanation:
"Battle maiden" is pretty straightforward. Schicksalskundig generally refers to someone who has had a tough life/past and knows how hard life/fate can be; so I would suggest something like "acquainted with misfortune."

("Adversity" could also work, but "fortune" has a more direct connection to the fate/destiny understanding of "Schicksal.")

LP Schumacher
Germany
Local time: 20:42
Native speaker of: English
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +1
schicksalskundige Kampjungfrau
prophetic virago


Explanation:
My take.

BrigitteHilgner
Austria
Local time: 20:42
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Helen Shiner: Wow, that's great!
2 days 5 hrs
  -> Thank you, Helen.
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
schicksalskundige Kampjungfrau
oracular valkyrie


Explanation:
Another alternative

CGK
Local time: 20:42
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Helen Shiner: Another good solution, though I wonder whether valkyrie is not a bit specific, which the German isn't.
2 days 5 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
foreknowing (mighty) maiden


Explanation:
Now they have come to the kings’ castle
The foreknowing pair, Fenja and Menja.
The mighty maidens were held as slaves,
By Frode, the son of Fridleif.



    Reference: http://www.topoftheworld.nu/?side=2f4e4af2f9632bad1eb8f54f8f...
    Reference: http://books.google.de/books?id=XTO_-gl9_uUC&pg=PA154&lpg=PA...
Barbara Wiebking
Germany
Local time: 20:42
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Ingeborg Gowans (X): excellent website: I enjoyed reading the original Swedish, as much as my rather rusty knowledge allowed me; I love this language, it is so meodious. My husband did a study on norse mythology, Edda Sturlison (spelling) I wonder whether this is from the sam
59 mins
  -> Thanks! I really don't know any Swedish, but I like the Nordic myths.
agree  interpr8er: yes, or Veronica's "prophetic warrior maidens" (which - to be perfectly honest - would be my preference as a translation)
6 hrs
neutral  Helen Shiner: Is foreknowing an EN word?
2 days 4 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
schicksalskundige Kampjungfrau
fateful/prophetic warrior maidens


Explanation:
This interpretation seems possible as well. See the wikipedia synopsis of the Norse poem.

Veronika McLaren
Local time: 14:42
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
This works best for me, but thanks all!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  interpr8er: prophetic warrior maidens: beautiful!
3 hrs
  -> Thank you very much, C.H.!
agree  Helen Shiner: I also like this one - prophetic - as a solution
2 days 3 hrs
  -> Thanks, Helen!
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Reference comments


2 hrs
Reference: Poetic Edda: Grottesöngr

Reference information:
The Hollander translation (1999, reprint, most widely cited, but not always most accurate; it's simply available in the least expensive edition, so people are most familiar with it.):
Now then are come to the king's high hall,
the foreknowing twain, Fenja and Menja;
in bondage by Fróthi, Frithleif's son,
these sisters mighty as slaves are held.


The Anderson translation offers the following:
http://www.northvegr.org/lore/prose2/031.php
Now are come / To the house of the king / The prescient two,/ Fenja and Menja.
There must the mighty / Maidens toil / For King Frode,/ Fridleif's son.

Evans translation:
http://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/grotti.htm
Now then are come to the king's high hall
the foreknowing twain, Fenja and Menja;
in bondage by Frodi, Fridleif's son,
these sisters mighty as slaves are held.

The sisters are related to the giants, so they are definitely *not* valkyrie, as this generally puts them on opposite sides of any battle. However, they also appear to be initially benevolant, which is unlike the general character of giants in the *Edda*; they only become malevolant when their labor is abused.


    Reference: http://www.northvegr.org/lore/prose2/031.php
    Reference: http://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/grotti.htm
Rebecca Garber
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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