cuatro novisimo, siete moderno, y hoy número seis
English translation: Leave as is, or put no. 4 "novísimo", no. 7 "moderno", and now no. 6
| 15:15 Oct 5, 2018 |
| Spanish to English translations [PRO] Law/Patents - Real Estate / property registry description | |||||||
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|  Selected response from: Charles Davis Spain Local time: 13:19 | ||||||
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| 4 | Leave as is, or put no. 4 "novísimo", no. 7 "moderno", and now no. 6 |
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| House numbering in Madrid |
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| Discussion entries: 12 | |
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Answers
1 day 48 mins confidence: 
Leave as is, or put no. 4 "novísimo", no. 7 "moderno", and now no. 6 Explanation: As discussed; for explanation, see reference. You could simply reproduce it exactly as it stands, which might be the best bet, or adapt it slightly as I've suggested above. If a more explanatory translation is wanted, it might be something like "no. 4 (novísimo numbering, 1860), no. 7 (moderno numbering, 1834), and now no. 6". |
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Reference comments
6 hrs |
| Reference: House numbering in Madrid Reference information: These terms, antiguo, moderno and novísimo, following Madrid house numbers, refer to the successive renumbering of properties in the city in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. Before 1749 houses in Madrid were not numbered at all. Old property deeds before that date identify properties by saying which street they were in and who lived next door. But starting that year the entire city was surveyed and houses were numbered. However, rather than numbering the houses in a given street consecutively, as we do now, what they did was to number each block (manzana) — 557 blocks in all — and then number the houses in each block, starting at one corner and going in sequence round the block. So a house might be identified as block 221, house 13. The drawback of this system was that you could easily have more than one house in a given street with the same number. To take an example from work I once did, in the Calle del Lobo (now called Calle de Echegaray), on one side you had block 217, numbers 16–21, and on the other side block 218, numbers 17–25. This naturally caused confusion. So in 1834, the City Council decided to reform the system. They renamed many streets, because one of the problems faced by those trying to locate a house was that there were many streets with the same name. And they changed the numbering system to the one we're used to nowadays, whereby the houses in a street are numbered in sequence down the street, with odd numbers on one side and even on the other. Houses now had two numbers: the ones assigned by blocks in the 1750s and the new ones assigned by streets. In property deeds both numbers were given, so a house could be nº 23 antiguo, 9 moderno, for example. "Moderno" and "nuevo" were both used, interchangeably. In 1860 (or thereabouts) there was another change of numbering. I'm a bit hazy on the details (it's not my period), and it certainly didn't affect all properties. At any rate, where new numbers were assigned in this operation, they were called "novísimo". The following is from a judgment of the Tribunal Supremo in 1873: "la casa núm. 48 nuevo, 1 antiguo, manzana 528 de la plazuela de Leganitos, tiene hoy el número 3 novísimo por efecto de la nueva numeración dada a las plazuelas por el Ayuntamiento" https://books.google.es/books?id=1WwuAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA270 If you look at page 3 of the following, which is from an 1886 issue of the Gaceta de Madrid, you'll see a long list of properties with their addresses. These are in the form street name, "antiguo" number, "moderno" number (sometimes the other way round), and block number (according to the numbers assigned in the 1750s). Just three of those listed on this page have "novísimo" numbers as well. For example: "Casa calle de Alcalá, núm. 18 antiguo, 9 moderno, 1 novísimo, manzana 290" http://www.bibliotecavirtualmadrid.org/bvmadrid_publicacion/... So this illustrates what I said: by no means all properties had "novísimo" numbers assigned in the 1860s. Those that didn't continued to be known by their "moderno" (or "nuevo") numbers from 1834. Finally at some subsequent date, though I'm afraid I don't know when, there was a further renumbering, producing the current numbers. I don't know whether there was more than one such operation or whether all houses were renumbered, but some certainly were, and the one you're dealing with was clearly one of them, because in the first entry you've quoted it is number 7 moderno (1834), number 4 novísimo (from 1860) and number 6 today. By this time they were evidently not bothering to record the "números antiguos" from before 1834. Since the first reference shows that the modern number of this house is 6, it seems very likely that "seis antiguo" in the second reference is an error for "seis hoy". However, it is not impossible that the house was number 6 in its block in the original mid-eighteenth century numbering ("antiguo"). It would be a coincidence, but it's not that unlikely. If you would really like to know, I would be glad to look it up for you, if you tell me the current address (in a private message), since I have copies of the mid-eighteenth block plans with the "antiguo" numbering at home. |
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