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Personal methods in translation
Autor de la hebra: Becca Resnik

Becca Resnik  Identity Verified
Estados Unidos
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Simple and effective Apr 28

Angie Garbarino wrote:


I start by quickly translating a sort of draft always with trados (even with no repetitions this helps my sight) and arrive to the end, second round I check and correct everything, confirming all the segments, then I read twice the whole translation.


Thank you for responding!


 

Aliseo Japan
Japón
Local time: 17:00
Miembro
italiano al japonés
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Same with me May 1

Angie Garbarino wrote:
I start by quickly translating a sort of draft always with trados (even with no repetitions this helps my sight) and arrive to the end, second round I check and correct everything, confirming all the segments, then I read twice the whole translation.

Perhaps this might sound strange to most translators, but the part that I find most enjoyable in the whole translation process is revising my own draft translations. The first round is just about learning the subject matter and building specialized terminology.

[Edited at 2020-05-01 12:31 GMT]


 

Becca Resnik  Identity Verified
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I bet not May 1

Aliseo Japan wrote:
Perhaps this might sound strange to most translators, but the part that I find most enjoyable in the whole translation process is revising my own draft translations. The first round is just about learning the subject matter and building specialized terminology.

[Edited at 2020-05-01 12:31 GMT]


I think a lot of translators wouldn't find that strange, actually. I bet many would agree with you - if not, then we're both strange!


Sanjin Grandić
 

Sanjin Grandić  Identity Verified
Croacia
Local time: 10:00
Miembro Mar 2020
francés al croata
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Question regarding CAT tool(s) May 21

Hello and good morning to all of you.

I see you guys discussing CAT tools so just a short
question even though I guess this is not really the right thread.
I personally never used a CAT tool and always managed to get along without.

Just got a major project with a lot of repeating stuff; spreadsheets, formulas ...some 250 pages of it.

I am willing to invest in a CAT tool but which one should I choose....the thing is that I also have to learn ho
... See more
Hello and good morning to all of you.

I see you guys discussing CAT tools so just a short
question even though I guess this is not really the right thread.
I personally never used a CAT tool and always managed to get along without.

Just got a major project with a lot of repeating stuff; spreadsheets, formulas ...some 250 pages of it.

I am willing to invest in a CAT tool but which one should I choose....the thing is that I also have to learn how to use the tools, so if one tool is more "user friendly" than another I d like to know which one is it.

Any suggestions will be highly appreciated. Trados? Memo Q? Déja vu? Other?

And what about CafetranEspresso? Is it worth something? Sounds like a silly question but I have no experience whatsoever with CAT tools so I don't know is it worth to begin to learn it or shall I begin immediatelly with the "usual suxpects 😊" like the above mentionned Trados...Memo Q and so forth....

Sorry if this is slightly off topic but who else can give me a better advice than you people who are using these tools on a daily basis.

Thanks a lot...

Sanjin...
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Tom in London
Reino Unido
Local time: 09:00
Miembro 2008
italiano al inglés
Do it May 21

Sanjin Grandić wrote:

..... what about CafetranEspresso?


I recommend it. Just load your project into the free trial version and you can get started immediately. The interface is very intuitive. It will automatically reproduce the formatting of your source files in your target files. Have a go !

[Edited at 2020-05-21 18:04 GMT]


Sanjin Grandić
 

Tom in London
Reino Unido
Local time: 09:00
Miembro 2008
italiano al inglés
My method May 21

Becca Resnik wrote:

What's your overall translating "method?"


I was sent a big academic paper a couple of days ago and at first I tried loading it into a CAT tool. But I wasn't getting any feel for the intentions, the style, the topic, or the "movement" of the text so I abandoned the CAT tool and started work on a copy of the source file, picking out random phrases or snatches of text, here and there, and translating them. I changed the colour of each translated snippet, so as not to lose track of what I had already done.

In the space of an hour or so, I was getting a good idea of the author's quirky writing style, his subject matter, and his argument. For that kind of text a CAT tool just gets in the way.

I prefer that way of working. CAT tools are only useful for mechanical, repetitive documents where the writing style is not very important and where the author is not developing an argument.



[Edited at 2020-05-21 18:10 GMT]


Josephine Cassar
Aliseo Japan
Sanjin Grandić
 

Becca Resnik  Identity Verified
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I highlight, too May 22

Tom in London wrote:

I was sent a big academic paper a couple of days ago and at first I tried loading it into a CAT tool. But I wasn't getting any feel for the intentions, the style, the topic, or the "movement" of the text so I abandoned the CAT tool and started work on a copy of the source file, picking out random phrases or snatches of text, here and there, and translating them. I changed the colour of each translated snippet, so as not to lose track of what I had already done.

In the space of an hour or so, I was getting a good idea of the author's quirky writing style, his subject matter, and his argument. For that kind of text a CAT tool just gets in the way.

I prefer that way of working. CAT tools are only useful for mechanical, repetitive documents where the writing style is not very important and where the author is not developing an argument.



[Edited at 2020-05-21 18:10 GMT]


This is great and makes total sense! Highlighting is a tool I love to use to cue progress metrics when working with any type of digital document. I highlight when using print materials, too, but of course for more "traditional highlighting purposes."


 

Kay Denney  Identity Verified
Francia
Local time: 10:00
Miembro 2018
francés al inglés
. May 22

I don't read through the whole thing first, I'm too impatient to get started! So I plunge right in with a draft. I don't usually look anything up unless it's a completely new subject for me, so I just leave terms in the source language and add a double question mark as a marker. Once I've done this, I feel comfortable about the text, I know there are no hidden surprises.

Then, ideally after a night's sleep, I work more on the file. I search for the double question marks and do the
... See more
I don't read through the whole thing first, I'm too impatient to get started! So I plunge right in with a draft. I don't usually look anything up unless it's a completely new subject for me, so I just leave terms in the source language and add a double question mark as a marker. Once I've done this, I feel comfortable about the text, I know there are no hidden surprises.

Then, ideally after a night's sleep, I work more on the file. I search for the double question marks and do the research, and check my translation against the source to make sure nothing is left out, added or left untranslated. I try to

Then, my favourite bit: I close the source file and read through one last time, checking whether the text reads well, sounds authentic and appeals to native English speakers. This may involve rearranging the order of ideas, chopping sentences up and joining them in different places. As I tell my students, you don't just avoid word-for-word translation, you must also avoid sentence-for-sentence translation. A French text can have sentences running on for four lines, with the main verb on the fourth, and be considered well-written. I'll put the main verb on the first line, and probably chop the sentence into at least three different parts.

I'll do much the same using a CAT file, although I'll preferably export it before the final phase, because splitting and rejoining segments is a pain you-know-where and wastes time I could spend on nobler pursuits. I find the QA processes both a pain (telling me for each punctuation sign that I've deleted a hard space, why doesn't the CAT tool know that this is compulsory rather than problematic???) and a very useful device for picking up tiny mistakes that can go unnoticed when you're in a hurry. But then I do appreciate being able to put segments in different orders: alphabetical to make sure similar segments are all dealt with the same way, or according to whether or not I've validated the segment, so I can just look at what remains to be dealt with and so on.

And mostly the CAT spell checks are vastly inferior to Word, so I always do a final spell check in the exported version. As a PM I noticed that the best translators had always put the spell check through one last time prior to delivery, and I used that parameter to weed translators out when I had to select one from a dozen applicants.
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Karen Wooddissee
 

Tom in London
Reino Unido
Local time: 09:00
Miembro 2008
italiano al inglés
reassuring May 22

Kay Denney wrote:

-----A French text can have sentences running on for four lines, with the main verb on the fourth, and be considered well-written.


It's reassuring to hear that this Italian writing style also exists in French.

As a PM I noticed that the best translators had always put the spell check through one last time prior to delivery, and I used that parameter to weed translators out when I had to select one from a dozen applicants.


That's why I always run a spell check before delivery


 

Becca Resnik  Identity Verified
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Great input May 22

Kay Denney wrote:

I just leave terms in the source language and add a double question mark as a marker.


I really like that idea! Makes what you need to come back to Ctrl+Find-able.

And mostly the CAT spell checks are vastly inferior to Word, so I always do a final spell check in the exported version. As a PM I noticed that the best translators had always put the spell check through one last time prior to delivery, and I used that parameter to weed translators out when I had to select one from a dozen applicants.


Now that's some good advice - I am new to CAT tools, so that's great to know.

Thank you for your detailed response!


Kay Denney
 

Angie Garbarino  Identity Verified
Miembro 2003
francés al italiano
+ ...
@Tom May 22

Tom in London wrote:

Kay Denney wrote:

-----A French text can have sentences running on for four lines, with the main verb on the fourth, and be considered well-written.


It's reassuring to hear that this Italian writing style also exists in French.


Yes, and even more complex than Italian I am doing one of them now, fr-ita


 

Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Miembro 2014
danés al inglés
+ ...
And even worse May 22

Angie Garbarino wrote:

Tom in London wrote:

Kay Denney wrote:

-----A French text can have sentences running on for four lines, with the main verb on the fourth, and be considered well-written.


It's reassuring to hear that this Italian writing style also exists in French.


Yes, and even more complex than Italian I am doing one of them now, fr-ita


And the French adore to use pronouns such as celle-ci and ce dernier to an extreme extent, referring back to an antecedent 20 lines back, forcing the reader to analyse the syntax of and several subjects or objects in many sentences back to find one noun for which the gender, singularity/plurality and context matches the pronoun.

I guess it makes the writer feel more intellectual.

And then there's German, where you can have 20 lines with all the verbs stacked up at the end. I'm still struggling with German T&Cs after more than six years in Germany (but I don't work with the language).


Tom in London
 

Becca Resnik  Identity Verified
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My thought exactly! May 22

Thomas T. Frost wrote:

And then there's German, where you can have 20 lines with all the verbs stacked up at the end.


They love massive sentences ending in verbs upon verbs.


Thomas T. Frost
 

Tom in London
Reino Unido
Local time: 09:00
Miembro 2008
italiano al inglés
Same May 23

Thomas T. Frost wrote:

..... the French adore to use pronouns such as celle-ci and ce dernier to an extreme extent, referring back to an antecedent 20 lines back, forcing the reader to analyse the syntax of and several subjects or objects in many sentences back to find one noun for which the gender, singularity/plurality and context matches the pronoun.



Exactly the same as in Italian: quest'ultimo but who the hell is "the latter" when there are several possible subjects in the sentence and it's definitely not the last one that was mentioned?

I always do my best to translate this bull**** into comprehensible English, without losing the ponderous, self-important style of the author. I actually enjoy the process of translating something unintelligible into something legible.


Thomas T. Frost
 

Sanjin Grandić  Identity Verified
Croacia
Local time: 10:00
Miembro Mar 2020
francés al croata
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Posted via
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Thank you Tom May 23

Tom in London wrote:

Sanjin Grandić wrote:

..... what about CafetranEspresso?


I recommend it. Just load your project into the free trial version and you can get started immediately. The interface is very intuitive. It will automatically reproduce the formatting of your source files in your target files. Have a go !

[Edited at 2020-05-21 18:04 GMT]


Thank you very much Tom.
I'll do just that since the project I am working on is full of repeating words and sentences. There are even entire chapters reappearing several times in the document with just two or three words that are actually different between the two "versions".

If I understand correctly the concpet of CAT, this kind of document that I have been given is very suitable for a CAT tool contrary to the document you yourself mentionned in this thread, the one you had to work "manually" so to speak, in order to grasp the authors way of writing and other details required for a translation.
My document is full of declarations of conformity, technical words, expressions and concepts (even formulas to calculate the max permissiblw load of an industrial lift) that are reapeted many times over in different contexts, first in the assembly part and then later in the maintenance section.
So I am going to try out the Cafe tran espresso, it looks quite user friendly and I think (and hope) that it will help me kut with the project, all the more so because I am facing 250+ pages of it. Fortunatelly, almost half of it are illustrations with like 35/50 words per page and very often these very words and sentences have been translated many time before, so hello Cafe tran espresso here I come. 😊.

Tom, thank you again for your kind advice, I really needed one since I was reluctant to spend time learning CAT skills if it was not to help me with this particular project the deadline being 29 days from today 🙄.

Have a great weekend.


Sanjin...


 
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