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ก. ข. ค. ง. จ. ฯลฯ used with document numbers
Autor de la hebra: Dylan Jan Hartmann

Theresa Somsri  Identity Verified
Tailandia
Local time: 10:01
Miembro 2016
tailandés al inglés
Simple transcription May 6, 2018

Document numbers are used only to provide references, with no impact on the meaning of the translated document. Thus, it would make the most sense to transcribe the characters, as the reader will be able to look at the document and recognize the string of characters as a reference number instead of a transcribed word or name.

Investopedia states that:
Reference numbers make it easier to concisely fit the transactions on a sheet of paper, as it requires only the use of a st
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Document numbers are used only to provide references, with no impact on the meaning of the translated document. Thus, it would make the most sense to transcribe the characters, as the reader will be able to look at the document and recognize the string of characters as a reference number instead of a transcribed word or name.

Investopedia states that:
Reference numbers make it easier to concisely fit the transactions on a sheet of paper, as it requires only the use of a string of alphanumeric characters to describe a transaction rather than spelling out the transaction’s full details.
(https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/reference-number.asp#ixzz5EiUbClNa)
The main keywords from this statement should be "easy", "concise" and "use of a string of alphanumeric characters to describe a transaction" - we can substitute transaction with document as the meaning is still applicable.

Also, document numbers and reference numbers are not always based on an abbreviation, but sometimes on the organization's system of reference. Some systems assign their own meaning to a letter or series of letters, treating individual letters as variables to indicate specific values instead of abbreviations (similar to that of license plates, as in http://www.samuitimes.com/thai-number-plates-explained/).

If the situation was reversed:
Document No. PMF.2018-05
เอกสารเลขที่ พมฟ.๒๐๑๘-๐๕
would make a lot more sense (and be much more readable) than
เอกสารเลขที่ พีเอ็มเอฟ.๒๐๒๘-๐๕

It is also highly unlikely that our documents are translated into English for a person with a Thai background who cannot read Thai or for internal processing within a Thai institution or organization. Adding "or" to the end of a letter (e.g. SorThor) is both unneeded and confusing, especially to a client who is not located in Thailand and/or not familiar with the Thai language.
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Soonthon LUPKITARO(Ph.D.)  Identity Verified
Tailandia
Local time: 10:01
Miembro 2004
inglés al tailandés
+ ...
Coding May 7, 2018

Theresa Somsri wrote:

Document numbers are used only to provide references, with no impact on the meaning of the translated document. Thus, it would make the most sense to transcribe the characters, as the reader will be able to look at the document and recognize the string of characters as a reference number instead of a transcribed word or name.


I totally agree with Somsri.
This topic is concerned most in administrative, legal as well as technical Thai documents.
For extensive discussions on translation arts, this topic is quite a challenge. Nowadays many non-Thai translators do translate and localize Thai public documents globally. For purpose of traceability which is strongly demanded in ISO quality assurance processes, respective translators can design an effective and acceptable style. In contrast, Thai public agencies e.g. legal courts want strict transcriptions of those documents.

Soonthon L.


 

Patrick Fitzsimons  Identity Verified
Estados Unidos
Local time: 19:01
Miembro 2015
tailandés al inglés
Advantages and disadvantages May 8, 2018

In my experience the reverse system is used in Thai translations of certain English abbreviations/codes in clinical trial documents. For example, "REGN2810 (Anti-PD-1 Antibody)" is translated as "อาร์อีจีเอ็น2810 (แอนติบอดีต่อต้านพีดี-1)". I recognise that these aren't document numbers, however they illustrate the point of this method - to stay as faithful to the official version as possible.

I certainly s
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In my experience the reverse system is used in Thai translations of certain English abbreviations/codes in clinical trial documents. For example, "REGN2810 (Anti-PD-1 Antibody)" is translated as "อาร์อีจีเอ็น2810 (แอนติบอดีต่อต้านพีดี-1)". I recognise that these aren't document numbers, however they illustrate the point of this method - to stay as faithful to the official version as possible.

I certainly see the advantage of using straight roman alphabet letters in many of the document number/code examples described above, where readability may be more important than fidelity to the source. My point in previous posts, however, was that there is also a disadvantage to using this method that we should be aware of, that this could be the reason the SorThor method was preferred in the first place, and that if we use the letter-only method for all untranslatable Thai codes/abbreviations (as 'consistency is key') there are cases where it may be inappropriate.

Regarding implementation of these approaches, though, it doesn't seem so complicated. If your client dislikes or is unduly confused by your method, by all means use the system they prefer, no?
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Pleayo Tovaranonte
Nueva Zelanda
Local time: 16:01
inglés al tailandés
Interesting omission May 20, 2018

Dylan Jan Hartmann wrote:

For university documents, looking at documents from my former workplace, the ศธ had been taken out completely:

Screen Shot 2018-05-06 at 11.17.06 am
Screen Shot 2018-05-06 at 11.17.18 am


I'm surprised that the formal document omits ศธ. all together. I guess that avoids the issue but it is not very helpful. I agree that ST. would make no functional sense, neither is 'Sor Thor' (or 'Sor Tor' - now you're having another phonetic pronunciation issue). As a matter of preference I would find out what ศธ. stands for which is ศึกษาธิการ and I would translate it to Department of Education. And I will stop there. Anyone out there would translate it as DE. ?


 

Dylan Jan Hartmann  Identity Verified
Australia
Miembro 2014
tailandés al inglés
+ ...

Moderador de este foro
PERSONA QUE INICIÓ LA HEBRA
DE, are you sure? Aug 2, 2018

Pleayo Tovaranonte wrote:

As a matter of preference I would find out what ศธ. stands for which is ศึกษาธิการ and I would translate it to Department of Education. And I will stop there. Anyone out there would translate it as DE. ?


This, I suppose, highlights many of the issues with translating Thai-English. There are so many varied opinions and preferences - consistency is so varied!

@Pleayo There is no such thing as the Department of Education in Thailand. If anyone was using DE., as you suggest, they might not be understood.

A simple search shows ศึกษาธิการ = Ministry of Education. I have seen some use MOE but as we are referring to document numbers rather than abbreviations, I wonder if this would be the right choice. It is an improvement from SorTor though.


 
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