Review rate question Thread poster: EmilyK
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EmilyK
English Middle (ca.1100-1500) to English
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Hi everyone!
I'm hoping someone can give some advice. I've been offered a reviewing job for a large document, for which I quoted 0.024 (30% of my normal p/w rate), for Rus->Eng. Usually, I charge this base rate no matter the number of repetitions, because you still have to read them.
However, the company broke things down as below, and it comes to significantly less in terms of how much I would be paid.
Is this standard/ reasonable?
(It's for ... See more Hi everyone!
I'm hoping someone can give some advice. I've been offered a reviewing job for a large document, for which I quoted 0.024 (30% of my normal p/w rate), for Rus->Eng. Usually, I charge this base rate no matter the number of repetitions, because you still have to read them.
However, the company broke things down as below, and it comes to significantly less in terms of how much I would be paid.
Is this standard/ reasonable?
(It's for a just under 2 week turn-around)
Thanks!
Repetitions 11,445 source word 20.00 % 0.024
100% 9 source word 20.00 % 0.024
95-99% 1,960 source word 30.00 % 0.024
85-94% 1,409 source word 50.00 % 0.024
75-84% 5,424 source word 50.00 % 0.024
50-74% 8,442 source word 100.00 % 0.024
No match 13,726 source word 100.00 % 0.024 ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 01:01
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
EmilyK wrote:
Usually, I charge this base rate no matter the number of repetitions, because you still have to read them.
If I can use a CAT tool for proofreading, then I'm sometimes willing to do repetitions for free, if the client knows and accepts that I proofread only one instance of each repetition. As for fuzzy matches, you're right: one has to charge the full rate.
The only instance in which not charging the full rate for fuzzy matches can be justified is if (a) the client sends you the TM that the translator had used and (b) your CAT tool can show you the difference between the TM match's *target* text and the current target text and (c) the client accepts that I make no changes to text from the TM, even if it is incorrect. I have never encountered a client willing to agree to that, though.
That said, if the fuzzy word count is not too high, I might accept fuzzy discounts for proofreading just to keep the client happy, but it must make financial sense to do so, e.g. the proofreading rate is high enough to make up for the loss that I make on fuzzy matches.
| | | | EmilyK
English Middle (ca.1100-1500) to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Many thanks, Samuel! What you say makes a lot of sense, and it confirms what I thought, rather. I am always uneasy about fuzzy discounts in translations, but when it's a question of proofing or reviewing and they make up most of the text it significantly alters the price, without much changing the time it will take to do the work.
I guess the way to go will be to clarify the matter of reading every repetition in my response to the client, and to negotiate concerning the fuzzy matche... See more Many thanks, Samuel! What you say makes a lot of sense, and it confirms what I thought, rather. I am always uneasy about fuzzy discounts in translations, but when it's a question of proofing or reviewing and they make up most of the text it significantly alters the price, without much changing the time it will take to do the work.
I guess the way to go will be to clarify the matter of reading every repetition in my response to the client, and to negotiate concerning the fuzzy matches! This part can feel like such a a tug-of-war. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I don't get it | Nov 26, 2020 |
The very logic behind this price cut is flawed, and evil.
Either you review the doc, or you don't.
You can't less-than-half-read fuzzies and fifth-read 100% matches. Even with a CAT tool.
And I thought a review was meant to check and correct any issues with unpaid autopropagated repeats at translation time, such as wrong context, wrong segmenting, wrong location, wrong flow and other wrongnesses.
Since I don't know how I can do a proper review ignoring a thi... See more The very logic behind this price cut is flawed, and evil.
Either you review the doc, or you don't.
You can't less-than-half-read fuzzies and fifth-read 100% matches. Even with a CAT tool.
And I thought a review was meant to check and correct any issues with unpaid autopropagated repeats at translation time, such as wrong context, wrong segmenting, wrong location, wrong flow and other wrongnesses.
Since I don't know how I can do a proper review ignoring a third of the text (text 42k, paid words 28k), I would have to review the lot for a third less money.
Anyway, they offer you less than 700 for this assignment.
Based on your standard, sustainable hourly rate, figure out how much time you should spend on this task, and work out whether it's realistic. Conversely, you can estimate the time needed to review the doc according to their guidelines (ignoring one word every three words) and see how much your gross revenue per working hour amounts to.
Translation-related fee calculations offered by some players are getting completely ridiculous, and there doesn't seem to be any lower limit. They can keep going, and it's up to the provider to set how far can too far go.
Philippe ▲ Collapse
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Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 01:01
Spanish to English
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| Don't understand it either | Nov 26, 2020 |
Maybe it's because I don't usually do review work, but is it normal to have a fuzzy scale for reviews at all? But the fact that they send you a scale doesn't mean you have to accept it, especially if it doesn't make any sense to read sentences, and then realise - too late - that you don't actually have to read them again.
You could review 1 page of 100 or whatever to work out how many you'll do in an hour, more or less, and then just apply an hourly rate.
[Edited at 2020-11-2... See more Maybe it's because I don't usually do review work, but is it normal to have a fuzzy scale for reviews at all? But the fact that they send you a scale doesn't mean you have to accept it, especially if it doesn't make any sense to read sentences, and then realise - too late - that you don't actually have to read them again.
You could review 1 page of 100 or whatever to work out how many you'll do in an hour, more or less, and then just apply an hourly rate.
[Edited at 2020-11-26 11:56 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | matt robinson
Spain
Local time: 01:01
Member (2010)
Spanish to English
| Not applicable really | Nov 26, 2020 |
I think someone hasn't thought this through, and has taken their standard table devised for CAT discounting and applied it directly to your proofreading rate.
Is the client an agency? If so, they should know better. If you are working directly with the end client, then I think you should talk to them about it.
| | | | EmilyK
English Middle (ca.1100-1500) to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | a deeply concerning system | Nov 28, 2020 |
@ Philippe Yes, you're completely right. A lot of the time it is simply impossible to check one in three words and ignore the rest because then you don't have a clue about context. So you do end up reading most of it (if not the whole thing) anyway because otherwise you can't do your job, only you're not getting paid for all the extra work. They're trying to cut corners at our expense. I agree that it's an evil system, and what's more, I've noticed that the agency reuqstes are getting more and m... See more @ Philippe Yes, you're completely right. A lot of the time it is simply impossible to check one in three words and ignore the rest because then you don't have a clue about context. So you do end up reading most of it (if not the whole thing) anyway because otherwise you can't do your job, only you're not getting paid for all the extra work. They're trying to cut corners at our expense. I agree that it's an evil system, and what's more, I've noticed that the agency reuqstes are getting more and more reaching. One of these days I expect to be offered unpaid work 'for the exposure'. I've had an offer from another place where they wanted me to translate for 0.02 pence per word, so we're getting close.
@Mervyn, I don't do reviews very often either, and this is the first time I've encountered this tiered system for reviews. (I think it's already tilted in their favour even just with translation work!) I was so taken aback that I thought maybe I had missed some recent development. An hourly rate makes much more sense to me.
@Matt, Unfortunately, this offer was from an agency, and quite a long-running one, so they know exactly what they're doing. I just can't get my head around it. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 01:01
Spanish to English
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... what happened in the end? Presumably you've either accepted it, or talked to them about it by now.
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EmilyK
English Middle (ca.1100-1500) to English
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TOPIC STARTER
Yeah, they didn't go for it. Oh, well. Sometimes I feel like I spend more time negotiating that actually translating.
Thank you all for your advice!
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 01:01
Spanish to English
+ ...
That's too bad, but you would probably have had a miserable or stormy relationship with them anyway, so ... next customer!
| | | | Arianne Farah
Canada
Local time: 19:01
Member (2008)
English to French
| Late to the party | Dec 2, 2020 |
Answering this a week too late, but I do a lot of review and every once in a while an agency or PM tries to apply memory pricing to revision... nope! never. not happening. If anything repetitions are more work because you have to maintain consistency and fuzzy matches are where translators make the most mistakes... either by not updating them at all, or by not making the changes work with the original sentence.
| | | | EmilyK
English Middle (ca.1100-1500) to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Completely agree | Dec 8, 2020 |
@Mervyn, yes, I don't think it would have made for a very good working relationship - hopefully this sort of offer won't become the norm.
@Arianne I couldn't agree more - especially those repetitions where there are some minor differences, so the software doesn't autocorrect them all at once and you have fix them yourself one-by-one. Fuzzy matches can be an absolute slog, particularly if there is a lot of material that has to stay consistent - so much time goes into checking and re-... See more @Mervyn, yes, I don't think it would have made for a very good working relationship - hopefully this sort of offer won't become the norm.
@Arianne I couldn't agree more - especially those repetitions where there are some minor differences, so the software doesn't autocorrect them all at once and you have fix them yourself one-by-one. Fuzzy matches can be an absolute slog, particularly if there is a lot of material that has to stay consistent - so much time goes into checking and re-checking. And, of course, the state of the text that you receive makes a big difference - it's very rarely just a smooth run-through to fix minor errors.
I have calculated the hours per memory rate to come up to much less than minimum wage over here, but I thought maybe that's just me missing something obvious.
I am very relieved to know that I wasn't being unreasonable in turning down such projects! ▲ Collapse
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Adieu
Ukrainian to English
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| Might not be what you think | Dec 30, 2020 |
EmilyK wrote:
Hi everyone!
I'm hoping someone can give some advice. I've been offered a reviewing job for a large document, for which I quoted 0.024 (30% of my normal p/w rate), for Rus->Eng. Usually, I charge this base rate no matter the number of repetitions, because you still have to read them.
However, the company broke things down as below, and it comes to significantly less in terms of how much I would be paid.
Is this standard/ reasonable?
(It's for a just under 2 week turn-around)
Thanks!
Repetitions 11,445 source word 20.00 % 0.024
100% 9 source word 20.00 % 0.024
95-99% 1,960 source word 30.00 % 0.024
85-94% 1,409 source word 50.00 % 0.024
75-84% 5,424 source word 50.00 % 0.024
50-74% 8,442 source word 100.00 % 0.024
No match 13,726 source word 100.00 % 0.024
25k words for 2 weeks?
You sure this is actual revision and not VERY raw MT post-editing?
That would explain the suspiciously long due date, if they're pretty much expecting you to start from scratch (or rather, from where your own software would leave you a couple clicks after receiving their file for something billed at 3.3X the rate and called "translation")
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