Paying a fee for one or more translation jobs? Thread poster: Dario Pastore
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Hi everyone.
This is my first time writing on this forum.
There's a matter on which I wish to ask you, ladies and gentlemen, for an opinion.
I'm in the midst of negotiating a deal with a company in Perù that deals with translations of documents and audio conferences.
My contact has some translation assignments on behalf of a British translation company, which she plans to send me after a test that I successfully completed.
However, my Peruvian contact who is... See more Hi everyone.
This is my first time writing on this forum.
There's a matter on which I wish to ask you, ladies and gentlemen, for an opinion.
I'm in the midst of negotiating a deal with a company in Perù that deals with translations of documents and audio conferences.
My contact has some translation assignments on behalf of a British translation company, which she plans to send me after a test that I successfully completed.
However, my Peruvian contact who is working as the intermediary, claims that it is more convenient for every involved party if I pay a fee to the Peruvian company once a month, or once every two months, for every assigned project.
The official reason for this is that if payments will be forwarded from Britain to Peru, the bank charges will be "exorbitant".
This doesn’t sound completely honest, and I feel that this is fee is instead supposed to cover a commission cost for the Peruvian company.
My question then is the following:
Is it normal for a translator to pay a fee for one or more assigned projects? ▲ Collapse
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Dario Pastore wrote:
Hi everyone.
This is my first time writing on this forum.
There's a matter on which I wish to ask you, ladies and gentlemen, for an opinion.
I'm in the midst of negotiating a deal with a company in Perù that deals with translations of documents and audio conferences.
My contact has some translation assignments on behalf of a British translation company, which she plans to send me after a test that I successfully completed.
However, my Peruvian contact who is working as the intermediary, claims that it is more convenient for every involved party if I pay a fee to the Peruvian company once a month, or once every two months, for every assigned project.
The official reason for this is that if payments will be forwarded from Britain to Peru, the bank charges will be "exorbitant".
This doesn’t sound completely honest, and I feel that this is fee is instead supposed to cover a commission cost for the Peruvian company.
My question then is the following:
Is it normal for a translator to pay a fee for one or more assigned projects?
Sounds like a bad start. The client should pay you instead of you paying the client. Bank charges are not your problem. I would be very carefull with this client.
| | | | Elena Feriani
Italy
Local time: 02:11
Member
French to Italian
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I see this request as a big red flag. I wouldn't accept if I were you.
| | | | Dario Pastore
Italy
Local time: 02:11
English to Italian
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TOPIC STARTER
My thoughts exactly. Thank you so much.
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... and RUN !
You're definitely not supposed to pay your client. In fact, it works the other way... I don't recall ever asking a fee to my baker when I buy bread.
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As others have said, bank charges are not your problem and anyway there are other alternatives available if these are «exorbitant», for instance PayPal or better still Transferwise and the like.
| | | | DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
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| No specific figures nor proofs? | May 27, 2020 |
Dario, as a sensible businessperson you can think it over calmly, assessing the risks. However, unlike going direct, such a substandard subcontract will surely give you extra fuss for nothing. Depending on the very jurisdiction, wording, and implementation, it smells rather ratty somewhere between a mere sponging and laundering scheme.
Why don't you take the draft to a lawyer or an inspector practicing in the international contracts?
Good luck
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Samuel Murray 
Netherlands
Local time: 02:11
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Dario Pastore wrote:
However, my Peruvian contact who is working as the intermediary, claims that it is more convenient for every involved party if I pay a fee to the Peruvian company once a month, or once every two months, for every assigned project [because] if payments will be forwarded from Britain to Peru, the bank charges will be "exorbitant".
Let's see if I got this right:
The Peruvian company is your client, and the British company is the Peruvian company's client. So far, so good, all pretty normal. Then, under normal circumstances, the British company will pay the Peruvian company, who will then deduct their commission and pay you (in Italy). But now, ostensibly due to banking fees, the Peruvian is suggesting that the British company pay you directly (in Italy), and then you simply pay the Peruvian company's commission to them once every so often. Is that the gist of it?
Will you still be sending your translations to the Peruvian, and/or will the other agency tasks (e.g. revision, quality control, etc.) still be handled by the Peruvian?
I checked a number of ways to transfer money from Peru to Italy, and many of the usually available systems (e.g. Transferwise) can't transfer money from Peru or to Italy or from Peru to Italy, so this means that the client would have to pay you via a commercial bank, and such transfers are not cheap. In contrast, transferring money from the UK to Italy is fast and cheap. What's more, transferring money from Italy to Peru is often much, much cheaper than the other way around. At one money transfer service, I saw a 10% fee for Peru-to-Italy (that's $100 fee on a $1000 transfer) and 1% fee for Italy-to-Peru. And if you were to get several payments per month from the UK, and send only one payment every two months to Peru, it's obviously going to save money.
The important thing here is that the British company must be completely in the loop. The British company must know that you are the third-level service provider and that you and the Peruvian are doing this only to save money. I'm not sure if a British company would be allowed to do that, though (i.e., pay a Peruvian by sending money to Italy), due to some rather strict money-laundering laws in the UK.
It's likely going to be easier to just work for the British company directly (i.e. they pay an Italian by sending money to Italy), and you then sending a commission to the Peruvian.
Another member wrote:
Bank charges are not your problem, and anyway, there are other alternatives available, for instance PayPal or better still Transferwise and the like.
Dario, I speculate that some people will tell you that PayPal, Transferwise, etc. are cheaper, without even checking whether these services actually do offer Peru-to-Italy transfers, and without checking what the fees really are.
I agree with the above member that it is generally accepted that the client pays all of the fees necessary to get the invoiced amount all the way up to the border of your country (although this can be negotiated, as with everything else).
But look at it this way: if I were a client in an inaccessible country and I had to pay a translator for whom the banking fees would be very high, what would I do? I would try to reduce my costs, obviously. One way to reduce costs is to simply reduce the rate that I'm willing to pay. Or... I could negotiate with the translator to pay their preferred higher rate, and use a payment procedure that costs me less. No doubt some translators would refuse such negotiations, unwilling to look beyond their firm belief that "bank charges are not their problem".
[Edited at 2020-05-27 12:22 GMT]
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 01:11
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Good luck in a tax audit | May 27, 2020 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
The important thing here is that the British company must be completely in the loop. The British company must know that you are the third-level service provider and that you and the Peruvian are doing this only to save money. I'm not sure if a British company would be allowed to do that, though (i.e., pay a Peruvian by sending money to Italy), due to some rather strict money-laundering laws in the UK.
It's likely going to be easier to just work for the British company directly (i.e. they pay an Italian by sending money to Italy), and you then sending a commission to the Peruvian.
...........
look at it this way: if I were a client in an inaccessible country and I had to pay a translator for whom the banking fees would be very high, what would I do? I would try to reduce my costs, obviously. One way to reduce costs is to simply reduce the rate that I'm willing to pay. Or... I could negotiate with the translator to pay their preferred higher rate, and use a payment procedure that costs me less. No doubt some translators would refuse such negotiations, unwilling to look beyond their firm belief that "bank charges are not their problem".
I'm sure you can argue the case for such transactons simply on the basis of business profit. But what are the the various countries' tax authorities going to say about it when they audit the parties? I'm sure my accountant in Spain would go as white as a sheet if I suggested doing something similar.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 02:11
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| I don't see a problem here | May 27, 2020 |
Sheila Wilson wrote: Samuel Murray wrote:
It's likely going to be easier to just work for the British company directly (i.e. they pay an Italian by sending money to Italy), and you then sending a commission to the Peruvian. What are the the various countries' tax authorities going to say about it when they audit the parties? I'm sure my accountant in Spain would go as white as a sheet if I suggested doing something similar.
Well, obviously one would have to figure out what is legal or illegal in one's own country, but in my current country of residence (Netherlands) it would be perfectly acceptable for me to pay a Peruvian company for services relating to jobs that I do for a British agency. For example, if I send my translations to the Peruvian company for quality checking, editing, or similar tasks (before I send the final product to the British company), and then the Peruvian sends me an invoice for those services, and I pay the invoice, then... that's all fine. There is no rule in my current country of residence that I'm not allowed to hire others for services related to various aspects of the work that I do for other others. But Spain may be different, who knows.
| | | | Dario Pastore
Italy
Local time: 02:11
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | More light on the subject | May 28, 2020 |
Let's see if I got this right:
The Peruvian company is your client, and the British company is the Peruvian company's client. So far, so good, all pretty normal. Then, under normal circumstances, the British company will pay the Peruvian company, who will then deduct their commission and pay you (in Italy). But now, ostensibly due to banking fees, the Peruvian is suggesting that the British company pay you directly (in Italy), and then you simply pay the Peruvian company's commission to them once every so often. Is that the gist of it?
Yes, that is the case. Also, the point was to send my translations to the Peruvian, who would also be in charge of revision and quality check.
According to what my contact has referred to me, the fee was supposed to be approximately 35% of my direct income from the British party, in order to avoid waiting for payments that under ordinary circumstances would have come from Peru after 60 or 90 days, because allegedly that was the waiting time when the Peruvian would deal with foreign companies. In other words, my case would have been a sort of a special treatment .
According to the agreement I was supposed to sign, the British company would have been made aware of me being the third level service provider. Whether they would have been warned or not about this alleged money saving strategy is unclear.
I would have likely negotiated, had it not been for the supposed state of confusion of the Peruvian company due to “a necessary digitalization process with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs”, as my Peruvian contact put it. A close acquaintance of mine confirmed that this was actually happening and it was not a smokescreen. I had one very feeble reason to trust this contact, but the reason crumbled after every professional that I’ve contacted for this matter told me that things seemed too dubious.
My contact confirmed yesterday after I started this chat that payments from abroad to this Peruvian company are usually sent each month and not per each translation, so at the end almost USD100 would have been deducted from every transfer and I would have received 40%-50% less from the invoices by the Peruvian company if I had chosen to let the British pay the Peruvians first and not me directly.
I withdrew ultimately because I was being exposed to too many risks.
Thanks to all your perspectives I will account for these things next time.
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| Flow of work, flow of responsibility and flow of money | May 29, 2020 |
Hi Dario,
It is sort-of post-mortem, as I just saw this post, and you already made your decision (which I agree with, BTW).
I am still not sure whether I understand the situation completely (e.g. whether your "contact" is the same as the "Peruvian", and what that "digitization" thing that you mentioned in your last post is and what confusion was around it), but it doesn't matter now.
The main problem I saw with the proposal is that the flow of work was going to be this: ... See more Hi Dario,
It is sort-of post-mortem, as I just saw this post, and you already made your decision (which I agree with, BTW).
I am still not sure whether I understand the situation completely (e.g. whether your "contact" is the same as the "Peruvian", and what that "digitization" thing that you mentioned in your last post is and what confusion was around it), but it doesn't matter now.
The main problem I saw with the proposal is that the flow of work was going to be this:
translation (Dario)---> editing (Peruvian) ---> delivery (British client),
while the flow of money was going to be this: British client--> Dario -->Peruvian,
so the money path is not backtracking the work/responsibility path.
This does not seem particularly problematic, UNTIL there is a quality or a deadline or some other problem.
What if the Brit refuses to pay, because the translation they received is bad, or late? If it was edited and delivered by the Peruvian (out of your control), they are responsible for the final quality, but you are the one who is not getting paid. Not good. Aaand, would you, on top of not getting paid by the Brit, be still obligated to pay the Peruvian their commission? Or would you be able to get your translation fees paid by the Peruvian, in this case? You see where the problem is?
It is because these 3 things: work, responsibility and money do not follow the same path.
In my opinion, the only way such an arrangement would make business (and accounting) sense, if you had a direct contract with the Brit for supplying finalized translations, and you would have a separate direct contract with the Peruvian, whereby you outsource the editing/revision work to them and use their marketing (i.e job hunting) services. So the Brit sends the source text to you, you translate it, send it to the Peruvian for revision. The edited file comes back to you, you review and approve/reject, finalize it, and send it to the Brit. You get paid for the completed project by the Brit, and you pay the Peruvian for their editing/review (and marketing) services. This way you have control over the quality that is delivered to the client, and you can make sure the Peruvian actually works for their money. Otherwise it is a very unstable construction.
[Edited at 2020-05-29 02:37 GMT]
[Edited at 2020-05-29 02:37 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Also too late reply since you already made a decision... | May 29, 2020 |
but I just wanted to add my input as I actually own a Peruvian company.
I was able to open a Business account with Transferwise to handle foreign transactions. This means I can get paid in different currencies and also pay my vendors the same way.
I incur in wire transfer charges when I send money from the Transferwise account to my Peruvian bank (charged by my bank or intermediary banks, not so sure, but that's the way it is). I obviously only transfer what correspond... See more but I just wanted to add my input as I actually own a Peruvian company.
I was able to open a Business account with Transferwise to handle foreign transactions. This means I can get paid in different currencies and also pay my vendors the same way.
I incur in wire transfer charges when I send money from the Transferwise account to my Peruvian bank (charged by my bank or intermediary banks, not so sure, but that's the way it is). I obviously only transfer what corresponds to the company's profit, after paying vendors.
Maybe this company needs to get on with the times. ▲ Collapse
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