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Incentives for staying with Proz.com?
Autor de la hebra: Bernhard Sulzer

DZiW
Ucrania
inglés al ruso
+ ...
Diversification: To-Kenism May 24

Even pimps and procurers should know that
A smart fisher always tries different places, special tools, alternative approaches, various baits, and so on.


1) Judging by the priorities, the ProZ is an agencies-oriented business offering “personal brand lists and ranks” by their rules.
2) It’s just one of the “places”: there are better in some terms, there are worse too.
3) A sensible businessman manages the risks and decides what and where to add or subtract and at the expense of what: balance your assets and liabilities wisely.

As Charles Darwin said for a good reason:
It’s not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.
So, are you adaptable enough, trying available means?

P.S. I don't use Proz for doing biz, yet occasionally it's still quite interesting and entertaining


 

Katalin Szilárd  Identity Verified
Hungría
Local time: 09:26
Miembro 2006
inglés al húngaro
+ ...
This "forcing to adapt" is also the "new propaganda" May 24

to navigate the mass to "accept" this bot apocalypse on the site.

As far as I know other sites were ordered by the law to get rid of them.
Also there is a site that received a totally independent oversight board with human board members to maintain ethics on the site....

Typo corrected

[Edited at 2020-05-24 14:50 GMT]

[Edited at 2020-05-24 15:36 GMT]


 

Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
Estados Unidos
Local time: 03:26
Miembro 2006
inglés al alemán
+ ...
PERSONA QUE INICIÓ LA HEBRA
Maybe disallow made-up names for profiles May 26

Katalin Szilárd wrote:

1 profile/1 person was a really good idea, but this rule doesn't seem to apply for everybody...


Marina Steinbach wrote:

Yes, it surprised me too that it is acceptable to create a ProZ.com profile to represent a group of people. I should have known that earlier. I have just paid an additional 120 $ for my husband’s profile…


It would be good to have this explained by staff. Send a support ticket because I don't think they're reading this. Maybe this has to do with translator pools.

Katalin Szilárd wrote:
I was talking about weird things with profiles and directory rankings.
Me and other translators had seen "carousel" type of profiles: different data was shown under the same name. So 1 person had about 3 different profiles for different business types.


I always thought you could have one freelancer profile or one business profile and that you couldn't register more than one profile because the system would detect it's you again trying to add profiles. Not true?

Katalin Szilárd wrote:
Or another translator, who wrote about 1-2 years ago that he would never show his full real name on this site, and me and a proz member saw that this translator had a different profile under the same profile link with showing his real name and with different translation fields. We do not know whether he knows about this or not, whether he was the one who created the other profile or not or whether someone else is misusing his profile.


So a translator could appear under "Donald Duck/Daisy Duck" in one profile and under his/her real name in another profile? And he/she wouldn't know about one of these profiles because it was registered by someone else with data taken/stolen from Donald/Daisy or the real McCoy? Did you ask/tell ProZ.com about it? Wonder if they are concerned about it at all.


Katalin Szilárd wrote:
Or a member's profile is sometimes shown in Proz Find, sometimes not. The weird thing is that according to her login data she was not even logged in for 21 or whatever hrs.


That's pretty concerning. The least I should be able to expect is that people are being led to my profile based on the keywords and matching services. Did you see if this person was a paying member, possibly with a Certified P? I have to say I usually found myself listed well, as long as I was a paying member.
Currently, that's out of the question of course. But I manage.

I see you are currently not a paying member either, so none of this is too concerning because you are basically invisible anyway unless someone allows for non-members when they are using Proz.Find. And unless someone got data from your profile and uses it in their own. Proz.com should probably look into profiles that are identical except for the name. Anything else is probably hard to detect. People will always get away with certain things. Of course this would be harder to do if the site would prohibit made-up names for profiles.
Thanks for mentioning these things because IMO they should all be considered when deciding to become a paid member or not.

[Edited at 2020-05-26 07:27 GMT]


 

Katalin Szilárd  Identity Verified
Hungría
Local time: 09:26
Miembro 2006
inglés al húngaro
+ ...
I'm a paying member May 26

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:


Katalin Szilárd wrote:
Or a member's profile is sometimes shown in Proz Find, sometimes not. The weird thing is that according to her login data she was not even logged in for 21 or whatever hrs.


That's pretty concerning. The least I should be able to expect is that people are being led to my profile based on the keywords and matching services. Did you see if this person was a paying member, possibly with a Certified P? I have to say I usually found myself listed well, as long as I was a paying member.
Currently, that's out of the question of course. But I manage.


The person is a subscriber with a P badge. Sometimes her profile can be seen sometimes not, and according to her log in details she couldn't do these changes.

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:

I see you are currently not a paying member either, so none of this is too concerning because you are basically invisible anyway unless someone allows for non-members when they are using Proz.Find. And unless someone got data from your profile and uses it in their own. Proz.com should probably look into profiles that are identical except for the name. Anything else is probably hard to detect. People will always get away with certain things. Of course this would be harder to do if the site would prohibit made-up names for profiles.
Thanks for mentioning these things because IMO they should all be considered when deciding to become a paid member or not.

[Edited at 2020-05-26 07:27 GMT]


I'm a paying member since a long time continuously!

You can see on my profile and I have never stopped to be a paying member (always paid to proz before my subscription expired):

Years of experience: 19. Registered at ProZ.com: Sep 2001. Became a member: Sep 2006.

Actually the system shows you as a non-subscriber.
I don't know whether you are a member currently or not but you are shown as a non-member.
If the system showed me as a non-member then the system is manipulated.


 

Kay Denney  Identity Verified
Francia
Local time: 09:26
Miembro 2018
francés al inglés
. May 26

Katalin, I see you as a paying member, and Bernard as not.

 

Katalin Szilárd  Identity Verified
Hungría
Local time: 09:26
Miembro 2006
inglés al húngaro
+ ...
Thank you, Kay May 26

Kay Denney wrote:

Katalin, I see you as a paying member, and Bernard as not.



Thank you, Kay to confirm it.
Well, this is the correct data: I am a subscriber.

Now I'm wondering how many clients I missed (and others missed?) due to directory and profile appearance anomalies...


 

Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
Estados Unidos
Local time: 03:26
Miembro 2006
inglés al alemán
+ ...
PERSONA QUE INICIÓ LA HEBRA
You do appear as a paying member. May 26

Katalin Szilárd wrote:

Kay Denney wrote:

Katalin, I see you as a paying member, and Bernard as not.



Thank you, Kay to confirm it.
Well, this is the correct data: I am a subscriber.

Now I'm wondering how many clients I missed (and others missed?) due to directory and profile appearance anomalies...


Sorry to have worried you, Katalin. My mistake. I glanced at your name while I was typing my reply, I was in reply mode. That's when you only see the name, nothing else. That's true for everybody.

I see you as a paying member with the P badge in regular viewing mode.

So you should probably contact ProZ.com and tell them your experiences.


 

Katalin Szilárd  Identity Verified
Hungría
Local time: 09:26
Miembro 2006
inglés al húngaro
+ ...
Everybody whether registered/logged in or not should should see the correct data May 26

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:


Sorry to have worried you, Katalin. My mistake. I glanced at your name while I was typing my reply, I was in reply mode. That's when you only see the name, nothing else. That's true for everybody.

I see you as a paying member with the P badge in regular viewing mode.

So you should probably contact ProZ.com and tell them your experiences.


You did not worry me. I have seen "enough" by now...
Oh, yes definitely I will contact them or maybe "you" could help as well?

In the last 1 year I have seen that more agencies and freelancers were using the old directory, probably they have also seen these profile appearance and ranking differences between the 2 directories.
Maybe end-clients and non-visitors should also see and know the real correct data.

I have recently seen that this thread was moved from the recent forum postings.
Then when I was looking for it and made a refresh it was there again.
I think everybody should get to know about what is going on..

[Edited at 2020-05-26 13:20 GMT]


 

Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
Estados Unidos
Local time: 03:26
Miembro 2006
inglés al alemán
+ ...
PERSONA QUE INICIÓ LA HEBRA
The point: I do not use or want to pay for the job board May 28

DZiW wrote:

Even pimps and procurers should know that
A smart fisher always tries different places, special tools, alternative approaches, various baits, and so on.


1) Judging by the priorities, the ProZ is an agencies-oriented business offering “personal brand lists and ranks” by their rules.
2) It’s just one of the “places”: there are better in some terms, there are worse too.
3) A sensible businessman manages the risks and decides what and where to add or subtract and at the expense of what: balance your assets and liabilities wisely.

As Charles Darwin said for a good reason:
It’s not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.
So, are you adaptable enough, trying available means?

P.S. I don't use Proz for doing biz, yet occasionally it's still quite interesting and entertaining



That's not the point.
The point is that you can only buy membership that includes use of the job(s) board and I regard it as highly insulting and detrimental to my ethical practices through the many bottom-feeding job posts. I don't have any use for it. I'd like to pay for other services, but not for that. By paying, I would only support it. Not going to happen anymore.

And to your Darwinian point. I don't follow others blindly especially when they are blind (blind not in the physical sense). Each person (still) makes their own decisions in life and I can leave this site altogether anytime if I feel I should. However, spreading a little awareness might be worth something. But to each his or her own.


 

Jean Dimitriadis  Identity Verified
Francia
Miembro
inglés al francés
+ ...
On the fence  May 28

Now that you have experienced not being a ProZ member, you are probably in a better position than before to compare between the two states and figure out for yourself whether the benefits outweigh the costs, both of which have not changed much since.

---

Of course, I understand that on a wider perspective, this discussion can help give some feedback on features that matter and those that don’t for registered ProZ users.

Job board

I can hardly
... See more
Now that you have experienced not being a ProZ member, you are probably in a better position than before to compare between the two states and figure out for yourself whether the benefits outweigh the costs, both of which have not changed much since.

---

Of course, I understand that on a wider perspective, this discussion can help give some feedback on features that matter and those that don’t for registered ProZ users.

Job board

I can hardly recall the last time I looked at the Job board and have been quite critical of it as well. However, I cannot help but see it is an integral part of the ProZ.com offering/universe.

While the major reason for resorting to adding a job board announcement is to have linguists compete mostly over rates and thusly drive prices down, there are still some other valid reasons for using this platform (for example, a translation agency has an urgent and/or specialist project, expects a high volume project that cannot be handled by current collaborators alone, or has a request for a more rare language pair). My main criticism is the prominence that is given to that feature of ProZ, which is probably of very limited interest to most translators working at professional rates/in developed countries.

[Edited at 2020-05-28 17:08 GMT]
Collapse


 

DZiW
Ucrania
inglés al ruso
+ ...
Comparability May 28

Bernhard, my remark is not about freelancers, clients, and agencies only—for what it’s worth, the ProZ is a subject to change too. Actually, I like to watch some people, things, and professions change.

Meanwhile, I’m sure the ‘pure’ translator is an interim (synthetic) stage, whereas the real industry and business require real specialists with business awareness and foreign language skills. Perhaps, it’s one of the big reasons I manage to keep the peace of mind.
<
... See more
Bernhard, my remark is not about freelancers, clients, and agencies only—for what it’s worth, the ProZ is a subject to change too. Actually, I like to watch some people, things, and professions change.

Meanwhile, I’m sure the ‘pure’ translator is an interim (synthetic) stage, whereas the real industry and business require real specialists with business awareness and foreign language skills. Perhaps, it’s one of the big reasons I manage to keep the peace of mind.

Although it’s not okay to pose ‘the best cases’ as ‘common’ nor wrap ‘under-cent jobs’ as ‘acceptable offers’, I seem to fail what you propose: the partial membership again? You must have the right to voice it and choose what is better for you. No guarantees though.

Otherwise, you might be simply too old for mere ‘pure’ PEMTing, because you have outgrown the cheap mass-oriented ever-freetesting anti-profit amateurishness and just need something more rewarding, stable, reliable, and respectable—or entertaining.


By the way, while your Bio and site look pretty solid, there’re rather many weed and polite words and phrases, which may be perceived as powerless or even needy. Also why making your prospects do something extra, when you could make it quick? E.g. why check the external link instead of comparing a short sample at a glance? Or why read “Step 1: You contact us and let us know what your language needs are” in vain—without a link to click? Why no specific or substantiated rate/ranges instead of 'competitive prices' roundabouts? If I cannot see price/value ratio, I discard such an offer immediately. Certainly, the Features-Advantages-Benefits [What’s in it for me?] principle is also omitted, alas.

Take care
Collapse


 

Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
Estados Unidos
Local time: 03:26
Miembro 2006
inglés al alemán
+ ...
PERSONA QUE INICIÓ LA HEBRA
Thanks for your input May 28

DZiW wrote:

Bernhard, my remark is not about freelancers, clients, and agencies only—for what it’s worth, the ProZ is a subject to change too. Actually, I like to watch some people, things, and professions change.

Meanwhile, I’m sure the ‘pure’ translator is an interim (synthetic) stage, whereas the real industry and business require real specialists with business awareness and foreign language skills. Perhaps, it’s one of the big reasons I manage to keep the peace of mind.


Maybe it's nostalgia that keeps me here, certainly not any business sense. I know others feel and maybe experience it differently.

DZiW wrote:
Although it’s not okay to pose ‘the best cases’ as ‘common’ nor wrap ‘under-cent jobs’ as ‘acceptable offers’, I seem to fail what you propose: the partial membership again? You must have the right to voice it and choose what is better for you. No guarantees though.


DZiW wrote:

Otherwise, you might be simply too old for mere ‘pure’ PEMTing, because you have outgrown the cheap mass-oriented ever-free testing anti-profit amateurishness and just need something more rewarding, stable, reliable, and respectable—or entertaining.


If that's what too old means, then yes.

DZiW wrote:
By the way, while your Bio and site look pretty solid, there’re rather many weed and polite words and phrases, which may be perceived as powerless or even needy. Also why making your prospects do something extra, when you could make it quick? E.g. why check the external link instead of comparing a short sample at a glance? ......
Take care


Got it. Thanks for the feedback. I did make some changes.


 
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