Páginas sobre el tema:   < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] >
Incentives for staying with Proz.com?
Autor de la hebra: Bernhard Sulzer

Fiona Grace Peterson  Identity Verified
Italia
Local time: 11:01
Miembro
italiano al inglés
Thanks for the enlightenment Robert! Aug 1, 2017

Robert Forstag wrote:

This site is not a cult.


Thanks for pointing that out, Robert. I will now put down the Kool-Aid and my copy of Dianetics.

Robert Forstag wrote:
I therefore see nothing wrong this discussion.


Neither do I. Simply voicing my opinion, like everybody else. Bear in mind too that a poster who seriously wanted to garner others' incentives for staying would normally give their own. In this instance, Bernhard gives none, just a list of negatives. And one particular comment is quite frankly offensive to those professional translators who still belong to the site.


Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
Is it for my image? Only if people seriously believe we are all a community of professionals - in the sense of serious, dedicated translators who know the worth of their quality work. Certainly not.


Don't get me wrong. I'm not "offended", since I'm confident of the quality of my own work. But painting every site member as some kind of cowboy because of certain members is unfair.

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
Is it for all the mass emails I receive from agencies


You can opt out of receiving emails by changing your account settings.

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
Is it for all the mass emails I receive from agencies who tell me about their limited budget, demand rock bottom rates and want my CV, references, free test translations and quick delivery but pay after 45 or 60 days or only if you bug them enough? And have quite extensive and mostly ridiculous NDA's (which are aggressively more than simple NDA's) to fill out?


None of these characteristics have anything to do with ProZ itself, they're simply the practices of certain agencies. What do they have to do with the Proz membership fee?

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
Is it because I can trust my membership fee will help improve my income


I don't think anyone ever ever said it would - correct me if I'm wrong. Proz is a tool, effective when used in the right hands. It's not a magic bullet, or a magic wand you can wave to get the right clients to come to you.

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
And please don't tell me your membership paid off because you got a job for $150.00


Well, if I paid 120 dollars and got a job for 150 dollars, that would still be a profit of thirty dollars. Simple mathematics.



[Edited at 2017-08-01 15:09 GMT]


 

Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
España
Local time: 10:01
Miembro 2007
inglés
+ ...
Depends on the clients Aug 1, 2017

Chris S wrote:
What I find interesting about this thread is the number of seasoned translators bigging up the job board and blue board for getting odd jobs from random agencies around the world.

But why do you need them?

I know customers come and go, but surely only on a very occasional basis?

Am I the exception in only ever working for a small handful of customers?

Isn't the idea that once you get work from a promising agency or end-client you do it well and then get regular work from them for ever more?

"A small handful" sounds a bit precarious, I must say. I only have a small handful of major clients, and I'd be happier with a couple more. Otherwise, if just one disappears you take a hefty hit.

But I'm sure you don't need loads if you work with big agencies with enormous volumes. I personally don't. I work with boutique agencies and magazine publishers, who have regular but intermittent need of my services. And website owners who tend to disappear once the job is done, until they do an overhaul.


Edited to add that I couldn't agree more with Mervyn Henderson's "warm feeling of bonhomie, togetherness and comprehension". We can become so isolated.


[Edited at 2017-08-01 14:54 GMT]


 

Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
Estados Unidos
Local time: 05:01
Miembro 2003
español al inglés
+ ...
You are very welcome Aug 1, 2017

Fiona Grace Peterson wrote:

Robert Forstag wrote:

This site is not a cult.


Thanks for pointing that out, Robert. I will now put down the Kool-Aid and my copy of Dianetics.

Robert Forstag wrote:
I therefore see nothing wrong this discussion.


Neither do I. Simply voicing my opinion, like everybody else.



It is nice to know that, for once, a contribution of mine on these forums has done some good....


 

Kay Denney  Identity Verified
Francia
Local time: 11:01
Miembro 2018
francés al inglés
I'm not Proz Aug 1, 2017

Tom in London wrote:

Gitte Hovedskov wrote:

....you want to participate in a forum discussion and your comment doesn't appear instantly, but ends up completely out of place in the order of submitted comments.


I am a fully paid-up member but my comment, which was the first, ended up completely out of place in the order of submitted comments.

Please explain, Proz.


but it seems that the first replies were from non-members.

In fact Gitte got it wrong, non-member replies appear just after the last post at the time writing. With hot topics, our posts are sometimes only validated after several other people have contributed, meaning that nobody sees what we write except perhaps the OP who can get notifications of each answer.

In short, I'm not even sure why I'm bothering to answer


 

Teresa Borges
Portugal
Local time: 10:01
Miembro 2007
inglés al portugués
+ ...
My reasons Aug 1, 2017

1. Proz profile
2. Directory
3. Blue Board
4. Networking
5. Kudoz
6. Forum posts
...


 

Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
Estados Unidos
Local time: 05:01
Miembro 2006
inglés al alemán
+ ...
PERSONA QUE INICIÓ LA HEBRA
A few more points Aug 1, 2017

Gitte Hovedskov wrote:

If you were not a paying member, your opening comment here would have been vetted by a ProZ staff member before being posted. Not saying it would then have been deleted (but it might), but at least you have the privilege of having your comments posted instantly. Non-paying members don't. This can actually be frustrating at times if you want to participate in a forum discussion and your comment doesn't appear instantly, but ends up completely out of place in the order of submitted comments.


I wasn't aware of that. Didn't it used to be that anyone could post immediately and only when you violated a rule, you were then possibly subjected to vetting? In any case, I don't think my comments violate any rules as I am only talking about my own experience. From my own point of view, most jobs offered to me via Proz. com fall into a category which I, again from my point of view, would categorize as low or rock bottom offers.
I've been a member for some years and always renewed in hopes of catching at least a few good projects or establish new relationships with clients, which in most cases were agencies, not direct clients. Lately, I have gotten practically nothing that would fit my expectations, and the question of paying is more urgent than ever, mainly because I get the feeling that I am supporting the site with my membership but don't see anything coming back to me. And please don't think I am trying to bash the site. I am just disappointed and concerned about the translation sector in general when it is permeated by lots of amateurs and low-balling participants on this and similar sites. But it's this site that calls itself "Pro"z.com. Again,this might not be an important point to many and that's fine. And I know that there are also professionals here, be they paying or non-paying members. One might still like being listed in a general translator directory, but it should be made clear that it's a general directory, not one with experts only. Again, I apologize if someone feels offended, it's not my intention. It's just the impression I have of this site.
Another reason I stayed is the red P because coupled with a good Kudoz record, it affords one top billing so to speak. But even that top billing doesn't seem to pay off anymore. And let me say I don't depend on jobs from here anymore. I simply can't anyway. I do have my client base, but lately, lots of things are in flux in our business and I certainly am pursuing other avenues.

[Edited at 2017-08-01 18:50 GMT]


 

Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
Estados Unidos
Local time: 05:01
Miembro 2006
inglés al alemán
+ ...
PERSONA QUE INICIÓ LA HEBRA
Answers Aug 1, 2017

Fiona Grace Peterson wrote:

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
Is it for all the mass emails I receive from agencies


You can opt out of receiving emails by changing your account settings.


I am aware of that. It's about mass emails in general that reach certain people who take the low jobs offered to them. I am not just going to stick my head in the sand and keep paying for the status quo. Not good for me at least.

Fiona Grace Peterson wrote:
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
Is it for all the mass emails I receive from agencies who tell me about their limited budget, demand rock bottom rates and want my CV, references, free test translations and quick delivery but pay after 45 or 60 days or only if you bug them enough? And have quite extensive and mostly ridiculous NDA's (which are aggressively more than simple NDA's) to fill out?


None of these characteristics have anything to do with ProZ itself, they're simply the practices of certain agencies. What do they have to do with the Proz membership fee?

Do I really have to explain that? It's not like these things are not happening on this site.

Fiona Grace Peterson wrote:

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
Is it because I can trust my membership fee will help improve my income


I don't think anyone ever ever said it would - correct me if I'm wrong. Proz is a tool, effective when used in the right hands. It's not a magic bullet, or a magic wand you can wave to get the right clients to come to you.


I am happy if it's an effective tool for you. Currently,I can't say it is for me. I guess it's not in the right hands with me.

Fiona Grace Peterson wrote:
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
And please don't tell me your membership paid off because you got a job for $150.00


Well, if I paid 120 dollars and got a job for 150 dollars, that would still be a profit of thirty dollars. Simple mathematics.



[Edited at 2017-08-01 15:09 GMT]


A little bit too simple for me.

[Edited at 2017-08-01 20:47 GMT]


 

Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia y Herzegovina
Local time: 11:01
alemán al serbio
+ ...
I don't see it that way. Aug 2, 2017

Fiona Grace Peterson wrote:
Well, if I paid 120 dollars and got a job for 150 dollars, that would still be a profit of thirty dollars. Simple mathematics.


If I invested $120 I would expect a value higher than $30. For instance, I purchased an espresso machine at $120, but since espresso in a coffee place costs €1-€6, depending on a country, it will certainly bring me a value higher than $30 in a one year time if we make 5 or more espressos a day at home.

Simple price - value sense, it would have to make many times over to make sense.


 

Chris S  Identity Verified
Reino Unido
sueco al inglés
+ ...
Please send me your investing secrets! Aug 2, 2017

Lingua 5B wrote:

If I invested $120 I would expect a value higher than $30.


If you find a 25% annual return on investment disappointing, what on Earth are you doing working as a translator?!

You could be the new Warren Buffett. Maybe even the new Donald!


 

Katalin Szilárd  Identity Verified
Hungría
Local time: 11:01
Miembro 2006
inglés al húngaro
+ ...
Investing vs. working (getting jobs) Aug 2, 2017

Chris S wrote:

Lingua 5B wrote:

If I invested $120 I would expect a value higher than $30.


If you find a 25% annual return on investment disappointing, what on Earth are you doing working as a translator?!

You could be the new Warren Buffett. Maybe even the new Donald!


Chris,

As you mentioned: "working". Investing is a kind of gamble. You can win or loose. But translators are working. They are subscribing here to get jobs, clients. Huge difference.

Bests,
Katalin


 

Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italia
Local time: 11:01
Miembro
inglés al italiano
Gross vs. Net Aug 2, 2017

Chris S wrote:

Lingua 5B wrote:

Fiona Grace Peterson wrote:

Well, if I paid 120 dollars and got a job for 150 dollars, that would still be a profit of thirty dollars. Simple mathematics.


If I invested $120 I would expect a value higher than $30.


If you find a 25% annual return on investment disappointing, what on Earth are you doing working as a translator?!

You could be the new Warren Buffett. Maybe even the new Donald!


All jokes aside, this is not finance, where you invest money and wait for dividends, interests, etc. We are service providers. If I invested $120 in advertising, and that brought me $150 in gross revenue for services rendered, I wouldn't even have covered my total costs and would write that investment off as a loss...


 

Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
Estados Unidos
Local time: 05:01
Miembro 2006
inglés al alemán
+ ...
PERSONA QUE INICIÓ LA HEBRA
What all those membership contributions can't solve Aug 4, 2017

Robert Forstag wrote:

I tend to agree with Bernhard's sentiments, but also with Jenny's comments. Here is my own list of "pros" and "cons":

PROS:

1.
Exposure leading to at least occasional contact with good clients for good jobs.
2.
Being able to fully participate in "Kudoz game," and thus improve exposure.
3.
Access to Blue Board (useful, despite its oft-discussed limitations).
4.
Ready access to forums.
5.
The "P" badge (I am not clear what real value it has, but I am certain it has at least some value).
6.
Terms help and glossaries (even though my access typically falls well within non-member limits, I do not mind supporting a site providing these useful features).
7.
Proz has no real competition. The other "portals" are a joke. Then there's a place imposing real professional criteria for entrance but offering nothing more than forums where freelancers typically exchange observations about their own magnificence.

CONS:

1.
Lots of contact through site about low-rate jobs.
2.
A Jobs Board featuring mainly low-rate jobs.
3.
A site more oriented to agencies than freelancers.
4.
A site not designed to attract direct clients.
5.
Caprcious censorship of negative Blue Board comments.
6.
Constant ads for, webinars about, and discussion of CAT programs I have no interest in.
7.
The absence of barriers to use/membership (i.e., this is not an exclusively professional site).
8.
By virtue of allowing anyone to join, this site has contributed to the degrading of the translation profession.

***
For me, there certainly is more negative than positive, but given the strength of the negatives, it is an uneasy balance.

Perhaps this is what Bernhard was getting at in his original post.



Great assessment of the uneasy balance between pros and cons. If we are to blame the participants (translators, agencies and clients) and not the platform itself, then we need to at least realize that by supporting the continuation of the platform through paid membership, we are not solving any of the problems listed above. It seems we are rather supporting the status quo irrespective of any good intentions Proz.com might have to provide tools to translators to succeed. Proz.com is flooded with low-rate demands by unscrupulous agencies and with cheap translators and this is certainly continuing. Thus my serious question about the incentives to stay with Proz.com


 

Kay Denney  Identity Verified
Francia
Local time: 11:01
Miembro 2018
francés al inglés
pros and cons Aug 4, 2017

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:

Great assessment of the uneasy balance between pros and cons. If we are to blame the participants (translators, agencies and clients) and not the platform itself, then we need to at least realize that by supporting the continuation of the platform through paid membership, we are not solving any of the problems listed above. It seems we are rather supporting the status quo irrespective of any good intentions Proz.com might have to provide tools to translators to succeed. Proz.com is flooded with low-rate demands by unscrupulous agencies and with cheap translators and this is certainly continuing. Thus my serious question about the incentives to stay with Proz.com


I've never been a member, always thought I might join one day but then I read a post like this and think, nope.

I'll eagerly read everyone's PMs letting me know where to find the top feeders and high payers and stimulating translator conversation though


 

Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
Reino Unido
Local time: 10:01
Miembro 2009
neerlandés al inglés
+ ...
My #1 reason to use Proz.com is this remarkable fellow: Aug 4, 2017

http://www.proz.com/forum/off_topic/317420-thank_you_proz.html

Michael

@mods: pls don't delete this post as it is serious and on topic. What I means is: half the point (if not more) of Proz.com is the chit-chat. It's all about the chit-chat.

[Edited at 2017-08-04 10:25 GMT]

[Edited at 2017-08-04 10:25 GMT]


 

Kay-Viktor Stegemann
Alemania
Local time: 11:01
Miembro 2016
inglés al alemán
Does money matter? Aug 4, 2017

Since we are in the "money matters" section and the original question was about whether the membership is worth the money, I think the calculation is quite simple here. I was a basic member for six years or so and last year I switched to full membership. The difference is remarkable. As others have pointed out, incoming offers via direct contact are the most interesting aspect here, and I can only confirm that. The contacts I got account for a significant part of my income today. Of course there... See more
Since we are in the "money matters" section and the original question was about whether the membership is worth the money, I think the calculation is quite simple here. I was a basic member for six years or so and last year I switched to full membership. The difference is remarkable. As others have pointed out, incoming offers via direct contact are the most interesting aspect here, and I can only confirm that. The contacts I got account for a significant part of my income today. Of course there is a lot of "noise", offers and communications that are of no interest, but this is only to be expected on a worldwide "bazaar" like we have here. In fact, the sheer number of offers means that I can select which work I accept and which work I decline. I pick what is profitable. This is professional enough for me.

Compared to that, the membership fee is just a modest cost factor, like other expenses like internet fees, licenses, and such.

That being said, I have no objections against making this site better and more professional. Or even against making the "profession" more professional, if you prefer that. But I don't believe that "professionalism" means being more exclusive or elitist. Translation is a mass market with a low end and a high end. You cannot draw a line anywhere between the professional and the non-professional part of the market, and certainly it is not Proz's job to draw artificial lines here. The boundaries are fluid. What Proz and the profession can and should do is point out best professional practices and the difference they make, and raising clients' awareness of these differences. Information and transparency, and worldwide competition, that's the way to go.
Collapse


 
Páginas sobre el tema:   < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

Incentives for staying with Proz.com?

Advanced search







Anycount & Translation Office 3000
Translation Office 3000

Translation Office 3000 is an advanced accounting tool for freelance translators and small agencies. TO3000 easily and seamlessly integrates with the business life of professional freelance translators.

More info »
TM-Town
Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business

Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.

More info »



Forums
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Búsqueda de términos
  • Trabajos
  • Foros
  • Multiple search