| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Are (freelance) translators also affected by vicarious trauma ? Thread poster: Ermelie
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Ermelie
France
Local time: 15:49
English to French
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TOPIC STARTER | @Mervyn Henderson | Apr 23, 2020 |
Mervyn Henderson wrote:
I know what vicarious trauma is, so presumably I am suffering from it.
It means getting too involved with other people's problems. It is mainly suffered by psychiatrists, psychologists and counsellors and advisors and the like, in short, people who try to help other people, but unfortunately the other people are often beyond help, and the terrible feeling that nothing can be done to help them often means that counsellors descend into watching adverts for miracle saucepans and miracle back pain relief until the wee hours, sleeplessness, dark depression, domestic violence, heavy drinking and crack sprees, self-hate, self-abuse, self-mutilation, and occasionally suicide.
Sometimes I feel that it can apply to translators or other professions, although without any direct responsibility for the people concerned. For example, your business may bring you into contact with someone who has an in-built propensity to moan for no good reason, an irresistible urge to moan and to be the very first to moan and to moan louder than all the rest, and to moan constantly and relentlessly, regardless of the issue at hand.
The constant moaning inevitably has an effect on others. You may start to moan continually yourself. The problem is that you get used to moaning, you reach a stage when you are happy only when you are moaning, although often you do not even know why you are moaning, but this does not matter because moaning is the only way forward to achieve peace of mind, and eventually and inevitably you are incapable of not moaning because you are addicted to moaning.
Thank you for sharing this interesting view…
Indeed, it is probably the feeling that nothing can be done, that we don’t have enough resources to solve the problem that leads to anger, sadness, and so on, the result being that you do anything to stop thinking.
I don’t know if habit contagion can be considered as a “vicarious trauma” but it might be one of the end results… So, if I get it right, you think that vicarious trauma can affect a lot of professions but is not directly related to the work of translators?
Do you think the content you translate cannot damage your mental health?
| | | | Ermelie
France
Local time: 15:49
English to French
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TOPIC STARTER
Chie. I wrote:
I am not sure why I was informed that I am following this topic
but every day we see the news and get upset. It does not have to be a freelancer, everyone is suffering from world conditions these days.
I do not know how to stay away as the news is as important as tragic.
No one ever thought they will get into the world with "force majeure" when they have seen and translated it tens of thousands of times.
Thank you for your answer.
Yes, it is true that the current circumstances are unprecedented. We are all affected by the news and what we read. Isolation has also become an issue for many of us.
Furthermore, I believe that translating texts about COVID-19 impacts our perception of this crisis. I, myself, have translated a document pro bono about it and, as I was translating it, I suddenly felt like I had some responsibility, I thought that what I did was not enough, that I was too slow (of course I’m still a student), and so on. Before that, I was just watching series on my couch, only sad when watching the news…
Have you (had) this kind of thought while translating texts related to this crisis?
| | | | DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
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| No, I'm not on anybody's side but mine | Apr 23, 2020 |
While emotions is what makes us feel something without even realizing it, I find that a clever man ought to have a decent inner watcher always awake and alert. That’s why I try to match of (1) who is doing something, (2) what made him do it, and (3) for what he is striving. Very helpful.
Sometimes it may make me a little sad when people do sheer silly things, yet I’ve got my own life to live.
| | | | Ermelie
France
Local time: 15:49
English to French
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TOPIC STARTER | @expressisverbis | Apr 23, 2020 |
expressisverbis wrote: Zibow Retailleau wrote:
If I understood the definition of vicarious trauma right, then maybe yes.
I once subtitled (subtitling and translating) some news interviews that exposed me to nauseous footage of police brutality and first-hand accounts from the victims. The project lasted for a week. It left me feeling rather depressed and sad. I even cried a few times.
Perhaps 'trauma' is much too heavy a word to describe my experience because it didn't take me long to feel OK. But I can't imagine doing this kind of project all the time. The same happened to me a few years ago when translating a child abuse report.
Oh, then can I send you a message and ask you a few questions about this experience ?
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expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 14:49
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
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Ermelie wrote:
Oh, then can I send you a message and ask you a few questions about this experience ?
No problem at all.
| | | | Jan Truper 
Germany
Local time: 15:49
Member (2016)
English to German
Ermelie wrote:
I would be very grateful for any general information or personal experience that you could share on this topic. Also please let me know if I can contact you directly.
I assume this does not qualify as vicarious trauma, but the underlying nexus of empathy might be the same:
I mainly translate subtitles for entertainment formats, which, if it's done right, requires getting into characters and story elements to some extent, in order to hit the right tone, much like an actor would. Consequently, I sometimes experience a range of emotions while working, and for several hours thereafter. Sometimes my night dreaming is affected.
For example, I am currently working on a project with scenes of gang rape and domestic violence, and it does not leave me unaffected.
(Edited to add:)
I also translated three Holocaust-related documentaries, which shook me up for days.
Please do not contact me directly.
[Edited at 2020-04-24 07:32 GMT]
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 15:49
Spanish to English
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I’d be interested in reading that article, Dan, but I’m not surprised your dentist had his doubts. I can’t see it as a profession that keeps you on the edge and doesn’t let you sleep easy at nights. Or can I? …
Blinking flip, what’s the time? 4 am? What’s wrong with me? It’s been a month since I got a good night’s sleep. It was all so easy before. Well, easy. The only preoccupations I had were the likes of Bernard Bloody Wiggins. The endless obsession with hygiene.... See more I’d be interested in reading that article, Dan, but I’m not surprised your dentist had his doubts. I can’t see it as a profession that keeps you on the edge and doesn’t let you sleep easy at nights. Or can I? …
Blinking flip, what’s the time? 4 am? What’s wrong with me? It’s been a month since I got a good night’s sleep. It was all so easy before. Well, easy. The only preoccupations I had were the likes of Bernard Bloody Wiggins. The endless obsession with hygiene. Asking me to stand in profile as I washed my hands to make sure I did it properly. What dentist washes their hands five times, for crying out loud? Checking for the EU mark on my gloves. Demanding the paper trail for all the components and suppliers for one miserable crown. The constant need for reassurance that it’s going to stay there. The veiled threats about how he’s sued dentists before. One bloody crown.
Or all that wailing and screaming by the Clatworthy kid last week. Dear God, what a state he worked himself up into after I put in that brace. Well, he asked for it, the pint-sized twat - he just had to have a frigging hand mirror to look into, didn’t he? For God’s sake. Maybe the little brat should worry less about the brace, and more about his acne and daft bowlhead haircut. Not to mention the monkey ears and the bad breath. Oh FFS, yes, that badger’s-arse breath. Ought to bottle it and sell it to Kim Yong-Un as biological warfare. Yes, he should worry. He should worry more about the endless kickings he’s going to get behind the bike shed over the years as the big boys’ bitch.
But then along came Susie. Sixth-form Susie. All that chest-thrusting and eye-fluttering and twisting at her school tie, and all that little-girl simpering: “Ooh, I have a little cavity here you’ve just got to fill for me, Mr Thorpe”. Any normal person would sit on a dentist’s chair with legs straight down, but who splays them out either side with a skirt that short? Oh God, if only I’d been able to keep my baser urges at bay …
…
NOTE FROM MODERATOR:
I’m afraid I’ve deleted the rest of this post and will be moving it to “Corona quarantine diary” at some point during the day because it’s going way off topic and frankly it's rather dodgy too. In deference to the original poster, you understand. Thank you.
[Edited at 2020-04-24 07:06 GMT]
[Edited at 2020-04-24 08:55 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 15:49
Spanish to English
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| Coming back to the point ... | Apr 24, 2020 |
Yes, there are ways in which translators can be exposed to the trauma or mental problems of others. Consider the following sentence, which I have made up from one I translated a few months ago, but I assure you it is quite typical:
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The process, the procedure, the policy and/or the metrics shall be assessed, carried out, monitored, validated and approved at local level by the Local Approval Committee, and shall be escalated, with approval in writing on the Local Process App... See more Yes, there are ways in which translators can be exposed to the trauma or mental problems of others. Consider the following sentence, which I have made up from one I translated a few months ago, but I assure you it is quite typical:
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The process, the procedure, the policy and/or the metrics shall be assessed, carried out, monitored, validated and approved at local level by the Local Approval Committee, and shall be escalated, with approval in writing on the Local Process Approval and/or Validation Certificate by the Local Process Approval/Validation Officer along with the Local Process Approval/Validation Report, for validation and/or approval at the corporate level by the Corporate Process Approval/Validation Officer on the Corporate Process Approval and/or Validation Certificate along with the Corporate Process Approval/Validation Report.
+++
Then multiply that sentence by roughly one hundred, and you have over 8K words that mean nothing at all. I used to worry about this kind of sentence, because I would look at the original and look at my translation and realise that it meant nothing, plus I realised that there was no way this kind of policy/procedure could ever exist because it is simply a waste of time and impossible to implement/monitor/approve/validate it … (see how it gets to you?).
Some companies, in fact, by law cannot get rid of certain employees, so they have them writing out this tosh day after day, and send it off to be translated into English for reasons best known to them. It is also depressing to know that what you are translating will never be read by anyone at all.
The secret to protect one’s mental health with this kind of blaargh is not to look for any meaning at all, to put yourself on automatic pilot, just translate the rubbish, garbage in garbage out, and at the end make quite sure that it is totally inconsequential in the target language too. If it means anything, you’d better take another look and correct it until it’s totally devoid of any sense. Once you start looking for meaning, your brain will be unhappy.
Before I figured all this out, got wise and started to protect my brain, my wife used to call me out on it. We had been talking about what we were going to have for lunch one day, and all I said was “Do you want peas and/or carrots with the chicken?”, and she said, “Why do you keep saying that? - “Saying what”? – “And/or, you’re always saying and/or.” - “Well, obviously because we can have peas and carrots, or either peas or carrots, and …” – “Oh, for God’s sake, I understand why, but I mean why do you SAY ‘and/or’? Who actually says that? Yesterday you said, “Do you want to drive down to Bakio and/or Bermeo?” and the day before it was “While you’re out today I’ll clean the toilets and/or the lounge.” What IS all this ‘and/or’ stuff”?
“I can’t help it,” I told her. “I’m depressed. I think I have VT. Vicarious trauma.” ▲ Collapse
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Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 15:49
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
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Mervyn Henderson wrote:
I’d be interested in reading that article, Dan, but I’m not surprised your dentist had his doubts. I can’t see it as a profession that keeps you on the edge and doesn’t let you sleep easy at nights. Or can I? …
Imagine typing all day from your phone and working from your phone in place of your PC or your laptop. Phone screen is about the size of a patient's mouth (modern phones usually have bigger screens actually). Imagine that frame as your work space for 10 hours a day. OK, that's just the beginning, speaking of the size of your work space. There's more of course, requires exceptional dexterity at all times.
I have friends who are medical doctors and they did report nightmares, but commonly while young doctors, say 1st year of practice. There are several reasons for this, one is that they are inexperienced and the other is that the worst tasks are usually assigned to young doctors in terms of patient variety and stream (eg. emergency room at night shift). Later on with more experience they typically can advance toward research or less stressful environments.
[Edited at 2020-04-24 09:53 GMT]
| | | | Ermelie
France
Local time: 15:49
English to French
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TOPIC STARTER | Other contacts ? | Apr 24, 2020 |
Jan Truper wrote: Ermelie wrote:
I would be very grateful for any general information or personal experience that you could share on this topic. Also please let me know if I can contact you directly.
I assume this does not qualify as vicarious trauma, but the underlying nexus of empathy might be the same: I mainly translate subtitles for entertainment formats, which, if it's done right, requires getting into characters and story elements to some extent, in order to hit the right tone, much like an actor would. Consequently, I sometimes experience a range of emotions while working, and for several hours thereafter. Sometimes my night dreaming is affected. For example, I am currently working on a project with scenes of gang rape and domestic violence, and it does not leave me unaffected. (Edited to add:) I also translated three Holocaust-related documentaries, which shook me up for days. Please do not contact me directly. [Edited at 2020-04-24 07:32 GMT]
Thank you very much for sharing your experience.
I'm not qualified to say whether or not it is vicarious trauma but your experience is very interesting, as it shows that separating your personal life from your work is sometimes very hard for translators. My Master's thesis is not limited to vicarious trauma but translator's mental health in general and I would be very interested in interviewing people who have lived that kind of experience and see whether they were prepared for it or whether they developped some sort of protection mechanisms, etc.
Would you have translators in your contacts who work in the same field and would agree to be interviewed ? I understand if you don't and thank you very much for your post anyway.
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 15:49
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Covid-19 translations | Apr 24, 2020 |
Since Covid-19 has been mentioned, because it's 24/7 these days ... I've been doing a lot of virus-related work, but not news reports or medical/pharma.
Mostly it's the financial sector, eager to demonstrate to stakeholders that:
(1) they have been working for years to digitalise and telework anyway, so now it's merely a matter of rolling the system out a little further so they can protect and safeguard the jobs of their employees (the employees they have... See more Since Covid-19 has been mentioned, because it's 24/7 these days ... I've been doing a lot of virus-related work, but not news reports or medical/pharma.
Mostly it's the financial sector, eager to demonstrate to stakeholders that:
(1) they have been working for years to digitalise and telework anyway, so now it's merely a matter of rolling the system out a little further so they can protect and safeguard the jobs of their employees (the employees they have left, after massive redundancies in recent years thanks to digitalisation), and also help protect the public at large simply by allowing staff to work from home.
(2) the pandemic is not going to interrupt BAU, and profits are safe.
(3) they have thrown themselves into solidarity initiatives such as donations, free T-shirts (T-shirts? - "I kicked Covid-19's ass" T-shirts?), helpful services, even easier terms on financial and insurance products etc.
If they WERE coronavirus news reports or medical/pharma texts, I would probably feel empathy with the people involved out there, but they aren't, and the virus is just the background for a chorus of corporate back-slapping and hand-wringing.
Sadly for me I know the price of everything and the value of nothing, and I'm cynical about the shiny happy do-goodery I translate, so my reaction to what I translate is often annoyance. With the hand that feeds me. I know it's daft. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jan Truper
Germany
Local time: 15:49
Member (2016)
English to German
Mervyn Henderson wrote:
... my reaction to what I translate is often annoyance. With the hand that feeds me. I know it's daft.
I don't find such a reaction daft at all, but legitimate and valuable. I've had plenty of "what kind of donkey-a**-s**king s*** am I translating here" moments, which eventually led me to make certain career choices with the express purpose of minimizing my annoyance, even at the cost of (temporary, as it turned out) financial detriment.
If you're a sensible human being and choose to work as a translator, you're likely to suffer some soul-traumatizing experiences, because the job can involve revoicing statements that are just effing wrong for end clients that are just effing bad, either directly or in the grand scheme of things.
Mervyn Henderson wrote:
... just translate the rubbish, garbage in garbage out, and at the end make quite sure that it is totally inconsequential in the target language too.
I've had a similar realization and consequently added this disclaimer to my CV a few years ago:
"I think while I work (i.e., I make sure my translation makes at least as much sense as the source text)."
By the way, Mervyn, I've caught the "and/or" bug you mentioned several times when translating privacy policy and/or TOS type documents.
(edited for typos and to get the quotes displayed correctly)
[Edited at 2020-04-25 05:39 GMT]
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