https://esl.proz.com/forum/general_technical_issues/259273-technically_challenging_test_translation-page2.html

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Technically challenging test translation
Autor de la hebra: Marion Plath

Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
Estados Unidos
Local time: 21:01
inglés a alemán
+ ...
the old CAT tools Nov 8, 2013

Can't recommend trying to solve the project provided for an older CAT tool by using a newer version. I don't use the older ones any more. The newer ones are much better and easier. There's going to be too many issues you can run into. Not worth the hassle.
The agency should work with newer versions. The year is 2013.


 

philgoddard
Estados Unidos
Miembro 2009
alemán a inglés
+ ...
Goddard's rule of sample translations Nov 8, 2013

The quantity of information the customer asks for, and the length of the sample translation, are in inverse proportion to the probability of their giving you any work. If x is the number of words, and y is the number of certificates they require, then if x > 300 or y > 0, the probability is zero.

 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Países Bajos
Local time: 03:01
Miembro 2006
inglés a afrikaans
+ ...
@Bernhard Nov 8, 2013

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
The agency should work with newer versions. The year is 2013.


Whether this is true depends on the CAT tool... and it doesn't apply to Trados 2007 versus Trados 2009/11/14. Trados 2007 is much, much simpler to work with. If you have Trados 2007 and you can find clients who prefer working in it, then I'd say: be thankful for every bit of sanity in this world.


 

Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
Estados Unidos
Local time: 21:01
inglés a alemán
+ ...
Don't recommend mixing old and new Nov 8, 2013

Samuel Murray wrote:

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
The agency should work with newer versions. The year is 2013.


Whether this is true depends on the CAT tool...



Just saying, there are plenty of problems that can occur when various versions of different software are used and/or mixed to create and then translate/edit a project.
I had my own share of experiences with, for example, CAT tool 2007 and word processing software 2010, so that's different from what Marion seems to be faced with here. Nevertheless, mixing different versions is never a good idea. I didn't like CAT tool 2007 anymore because you could easily damage or lose the delimiting source or target markers and the segment became damaged. Fixing it became quite a task. In addition, in certain situations, the old CAT tool slows down your work to a snail's pace. This can happen with long documents when using older CAT tool versions in word processing programs.
Also, I still wouldn't want to work let's say in CAT tool 2009 or whatever newer version if the client sent an old 2007 version. There are too many possible problems that can occur.
I understand that if all is created and translated in the same versions of the software programs you use and you are familiar with these, it can be easier, but I found the newer version actually easier and with fewer potential problems.

See also:
http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/193780-big_probs_with_trados_2007_on_word_2010.html

http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/97043-workbench_and_word_2007_extremely_slow_under_windows_vista.html


[Edited at 2013-11-08 23:56 GMT]


 

Rachel Fell  Identity Verified
Reino Unido
Local time: 02:01
francés a inglés
+ ...
Are you naive to expect only a Word or Excel doc when I am asked for a test translation? Nov 9, 2013

I wouldn't have thought so.

 

Sarah McDowell  Identity Verified
Canadá
Miembro 2012
ruso a inglés
+ ...
This sounds like it's not a test Nov 9, 2013

Unfortunately, I suspect that this isn't a test but part of an actual project. The fact that it's so long and such a complicated file format would make me suspicious.

Sarah


 

Yasutomo Kanazawa  Identity Verified
Japón
Local time: 11:01
Miembro 2005
inglés a japonés
+ ...
Is this a paid test? Nov 9, 2013

If not so, tell them to pay you, or else simply refuse.

 

Marion Plath  Identity Verified
Reino Unido
Local time: 02:01
Miembro 2013
inglés a alemán
PERSONA QUE INICIÓ LA HEBRA
@Samuel Nov 9, 2013

Samuel Murray wrote:

Seriously, it is good to know that not the whole translation industry is overly technologised. Trados can be useful if you translate texts with lots of repetitions, but to me it is just a tool and certainly only that and not more.


You could say the same thing about MS Word. After all, why can't the client judge your translation skills in Notepad, or in a handwritten translation written on bond paper?



[Edited at 2013-11-08 19:05 GMT]


I'm verry sorry that you don't agree with something that I wrote to another participant Samuel, obviously I shouldn't have said that the CAT tool Trados is just a tool for me [end of sarcasm]. I just picked this quote as an example of your way of giving advice. I appreciate you take a lot of time for commenting, but I would like to ask you to be a bit more sensitive about the wording you use. You have used terms like "claim" and "confess" which are highly inappropriate in this context and would better fit in a court than here. I asked for advice and are made to feel as if I needed to justify myself.
If wanted a heated discussion, I would post a controversial subject. But I was only asking for some friendly advice. Maybe heated discussions are your style, but I would like to politely ask you to respect that I am not looking for argumentative posts when posting an innocent question.


 

Andrzej Lejman  Identity Verified
Polonia
Local time: 03:01
Miembro 2004
alemán a polaco
+ ...
What is really challenging here? Nov 9, 2013

It's a routine work of most translators.

You must be aware that different CAT tools and file formats exist and you have to manage them, otherwise you may not get work anymore.

Regards

A.


 

Orrin Cummins  Identity Verified
Japón
Local time: 11:01
japonés a inglés
+ ...
My question: Nov 9, 2013

At what point did the agency inform you that a test translation (of any kind) would be required as part of the application process? Was it before or after you jumped through the numerous other hoops?

 

Marion Plath  Identity Verified
Reino Unido
Local time: 02:01
Miembro 2013
inglés a alemán
PERSONA QUE INICIÓ LA HEBRA
Several replies Nov 9, 2013

@Bernhard: Thanks for the link. I did quote an average rate and got a positive reply, but only a general one, "sounds good" or something like that. I certainly avoid the "give me your best rate" agencies and always check agencies on the Blueboard. Oh, and the test is unpaid! I wouldn't generally refuse test translations (probably I would if I was more established), but they should have a reasonable length. I agree, a test like they sent me should be paid.

@Sarah: Thanks, I susp
... See more
@Bernhard: Thanks for the link. I did quote an average rate and got a positive reply, but only a general one, "sounds good" or something like that. I certainly avoid the "give me your best rate" agencies and always check agencies on the Blueboard. Oh, and the test is unpaid! I wouldn't generally refuse test translations (probably I would if I was more established), but they should have a reasonable length. I agree, a test like they sent me should be paid.

@Sarah: Thanks, I suspect this, too. It is quite shocking what some agencies try to get away with.

@Andrzej: Is it? I think it depends on the industries you work for. There are translators who are not using CAT tools, so what about them? I didn't learn about handling different file formats when I did my diploma in translation. Isn't it allowed not to know eveything about the technical side of translation?

@Orrin: I was informed of the test translation after I had jumped through the other hoops... I sent my CV, application form, copies of certificates and then I was asked for a test.
Collapse


 

Orrin Cummins  Identity Verified
Japón
Local time: 11:01
japonés a inglés
+ ...
I see Nov 9, 2013

Marion Plath wrote:

@Orrin: I was informed of the test translation after I had jumped through the other hoops... I sent my CV, application form, copies of certificates and then I was asked for a test.


That is pretty sneaky. It makes me wonder what else an agency like that would withhold until the last minute.

I had the opposite experience earlier this year with a large Japanese company. The very first thing they had me do was a short test translation (which was in Notepad, believe it or not); only upon completing that to their satisfaction was I given the rest of the incredibly arduous and drawn-out application process.


 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Países Bajos
Local time: 03:01
Miembro 2006
inglés a afrikaans
+ ...
@Marion -- you're right Nov 9, 2013

Marion Plath wrote:
I'm verry sorry that you don't agree with something that I wrote to another participant, Samuel. ... I would like to ask you to be a bit more sensitive about the wording you use. You have used terms like "claim" and "confess" which are highly inappropriate in this context...


You're right, "confess" was inappropriate. Believe me, it was meant as humour. A more appropriate word would be "admit", right? I'm sorry you feel that "claim" is an inappropriate word. Perhaps you can tell me a better word? I often say that "I claim to be able to translate in Trados", and I didn't realise that I may have been saying something negative.

I asked for advice and are made to feel as if I needed to justify myself. ... But I was only asking for some friendly advice.


Allow me to repeat what I said previously, namely that you did nothing wrong and that the best solution is to tell the client that you are confused with his request or that you don't understand his request or that you don't know how to handle his files in your program, etc.

It is perfectly understandable to feel uncertain about a request from an agency, partly because it is natural to assume that the agency knows better. However, we can all assure you that if you had told the client that you have Trados 2009 and the client then sent you Trados 2007 files to work on, then it is the client who is confused... not you.


 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Países Bajos
Local time: 03:01
Miembro 2006
inglés a afrikaans
+ ...
@Andrzej and @Orrin Nov 9, 2013

Marion Plath wrote:
Andrzej Lejman wrote:
What is really challenging here? It's a routine work of most translators. You must be aware that different CAT tools and file formats exist and you have to manage them, otherwise you may not get work anymore.

Is it? I think it depends on the industries you work for. There are translators who are not using CAT tools, so what about them? I didn't learn about handling different file formats when I did my diploma in translation. Isn't it allowed not to know eveything about the technical side of translation?


I do disagree with Andrzej's final statement that implies that translators must know how to use these formats and/or programs, otherwise they won't get jobs. There are many, many translators who don't use CAT tools or who work for client who don't require CAT tools.... and that applies to both direct clients and agency clients, and it applies to both technical and non-technical work.

On the other hand, I do think that the client's expectations are understandable. Hence my comment about using Notepad instead of MS Word -- clients have certain expectations about what translators can handle, and so do we all.

For example: I used to think that the most basic tool that every translator should be able to handle is MS Word, but then I went to work inhouse at a translation department whose translators were not expected to use anything more complex than Notepad. Another example: I used to think that all translators do editing/proofreading of MS Word files inside MS Word, often using tracked changes, until a regular client contacted me in a panic because an editor did the proofreading by printing out the files, making changes using a pencil and writing comments and corrections in longhand, and then scanning the files to TIFF, saying "oh, that's how I do it with all my clients, and no-one has ever complained".

In the same way, clients who regularly work with translators who regularly use these tools may have come to expect all translators to be able to handle it, and you should feel free to educate the client and tell them exactly what you can and can't do.

Orrin Cummins wrote:
At what point did the agency inform you that a test translation (of any kind) would be required as part of the application process? Was it before or after you jumped through the numerous other hoops?

I was informed of the test translation after I had jumped through the other hoops... I sent my CV, application form, copies of certificates and then I was asked for a test.


I did not comment on this previously because I did not think that it matters to your original question, but just in case you're wondering whether my silence on the issue implies that I think it is reasonable for clients to do that, allow me to say: clients should tell you beforehand.

On the other hand, translators who have applied to dozens or scores of agencies will be able to tell you that you can't always rely on the client to tell you what the entire application process is.

In my opinion, the safest thing for a translator to do (as I surmise Marion is already doing) is to decide beforehand what you are willing to do and not willing to do, and take the initiative in asking the client about it. See, there are a number of things that come standard with many application processes, and that includes filling in an online form, signing an NDA, signing an agreement, being set up in an online invoicing system, sending references, sending diplomas, sending your CV, and doing a free or paid test translation. The translator should decide beforehand which of those things he is unwilling to do, and then ask the client about it upfront, to avoid surprises later.

I agree that clients should mention the test translation or the rate they're willing to pay *before* they send you the various contracts to sign, but unfortunately they often don't, and if you want to avoid surprises, you have to be proactive.



[Edited at 2013-11-09 13:46 GMT]


 

Grazia Brunello  Identity Verified
Reino Unido
Local time: 02:01
inglés a italiano
+ ...
CAT Tools Nov 9, 2013

The "funny" thing is that for the DipTrans you are not even allowed to use the internet, let alone CAT tools. And yet nowadays it seems the only way to be a translator is to also have diploma in IT.
Just saying


 
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