CAT tools grid and pricing. (Money matters)
Thread poster: Halyna Dema
Halyna Dema
Halyna Dema  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 02:02
English to Ukrainian
+ ...
Apr 3, 2020

Hello!
I have been doing interpretation for the better part of my career path, but due to recent events, I had to switch over to over-the-phone interpretation and translation. Now, I’ve done translation before, for private entities and some clients, but it was manual translation projects instead of ones that require CAT tools. Unfortunately, my education institution did not provide any information regarding CAT tools, pricing, software and anything else, that’s vital when it comes to
... See more
Hello!
I have been doing interpretation for the better part of my career path, but due to recent events, I had to switch over to over-the-phone interpretation and translation. Now, I’ve done translation before, for private entities and some clients, but it was manual translation projects instead of ones that require CAT tools. Unfortunately, my education institution did not provide any information regarding CAT tools, pricing, software and anything else, that’s vital when it comes to this market. Long story short, I have been contact by an agency, and we’ve agreed upon a reasonable rate per source word. They proceeded to provide me with a CAT grid, and that’s when I got utterly confused. I’ve been trying to read the other threads here, and try to figure it out and break it down (like everything else I’ve done before) and I’ve had no luck.

Can someone please explain:

What is the CAT tools pricing grid?

What is the importance of this in our field?

How to utilize this to our (translators) advantage ?

Can you provide some examples?

I’m sure this will not only help me, but someone who is also looking to start a career in translation as well.

P.S.
Here is an example of the one they provided:
New at [••••] EUR
No Match Word 100%
50 - 74% Match Word 50% of No Match Word
75 - 84% Match Word 50% of No Match Word
85 - 94% Match Word 50% of No Match Word
95 - 99% Match Word 15% of No Match Word

Are these reasonable rate percentages ?

Thank you!
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Gurudutt Kamath
 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 09:02
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
How close is the deadline? You've got an awful lot to learn. Apr 3, 2020

Halyna Dema wrote:
Here is an example of the one they provided:
New at [••••] EUR
No Match Word 100%
50 - 74% Match Word 50% of No Match Word
75 - 84% Match Word 50% of No Match Word
85 - 94% Match Word 50% of No Match Word
95 - 99% Match Word 15% of No Match Word

Are these reasonable rate percentages ?

Are those really the percentages they quoted? Although I've used a CAT tool for years, I've accepted client-generated grids, but I do understand them. I started at the bottom and was surprised to see it doesn't mention repetitions or 100% matches. I suppose that means they pay zero? The 85-99% rates seemed reasonable, if a little odd. IMO, the 75-84% is low. But when I got to you being paid 50% for 50-74% matches, my eyes just widened! I would never accept any discount at all for those matches.

What is the CAT tools pricing grid?

What is the importance of this in our field?

How to utilize this to our (translators) advantage ?

I assume from those questions that, not only did you not study CAT tools at uni, but you still know absolutely nothing about them. Do you intend using one for this translation? If so, how "techie" are you? I know some people can pick these things up quickly, but I also know from personal experience that some of us don't. Even if you learn IT things fast, it isn't something to be done when you already have a deadline in place.

You should be able to work out from the grid how much you'll be paid for this translation, once they supply you with one that relates to the text to be translated. It may or may not work out being financially viable if you make use of all the facilities of a CAT tool (glossaries, QA tools, TMs, concordance searches...). Without one, you're going to be working for a far smaller rate per word than you've negotiated, especially if the number of "new" words is small.


Gurudutt Kamath
 
Daniel Williams
Daniel Williams  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:02
Member (2018)
German to English
+ ...
This grid looks reasonable, but read all grids carefully Apr 3, 2020

Hi Halyna,
Agencies use CAT tool pricing grids so they can discount words or phrases that are repeated in the document. In theory, if you add a sentence to the translation memory and the exact same sentence comes up again later on in the document, the CAT tool should fill it in for you automatically (this would be what agencies call a '100% match', because it's exactly the same as a previous entry). From an agency's perspective, this reduces the amount of work you have to do, which is why
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Hi Halyna,
Agencies use CAT tool pricing grids so they can discount words or phrases that are repeated in the document. In theory, if you add a sentence to the translation memory and the exact same sentence comes up again later on in the document, the CAT tool should fill it in for you automatically (this would be what agencies call a '100% match', because it's exactly the same as a previous entry). From an agency's perspective, this reduces the amount of work you have to do, which is why they expect you to apply a discount. The percentages are based on the degree of repetition: for example, if you translate a sentence that is eight words long, and then the same sentence appears with two words added (perhaps a company name), that would be an 80% match. By default, most CAT tools will only display matches in the translation memory if the text is at least 70% identical to an existing entry, but you can usually change this setting within the CAT tool.

In general I would say your example looks like a fairly typical grid, although half-rate for a 50% match is quite a steep discount, because once you get down below about 70% you generally find you have to re-translate the sentence from scratch anyway (there is a reason why most CAT tools are set to that threshold). I've also just noticed that, as Sheila points out, there is no mention of 100% matches or context matches. Some agencies/clients will not pay you anything at all for 100% matches, because they think they shouldn't need to pay you twice for exactly the same sentence. Personally I think they are wrong to do this, because even if a sentence is exactly the same as something you have already translated when read in isolation, when it reappears it may be in a different context, and as the translator you still have to make sure that the entry in the translation memory is suitable in that context. One way of getting around this issue is to make sure your standard per-word rate is high enough to absorb the discounts.

I hope that's helpful. I appreciate there may be some divergent views on this topic, and I am relatively inexperienced myself by the standards of some ProZ members, so if anyone disagrees with what I have written, feel free to set me straight!



[Edited at 2020-04-03 11:38 GMT]

[Edited at 2020-04-03 11:39 GMT]
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Gurudutt Kamath
 
Kay-Viktor Stegemann
Kay-Viktor Stegemann
Germany
Local time: 10:02
English to German
In memoriam
Will you use CAT? Apr 3, 2020

The first question you need to check is if you will use a CAT tool for this work. Do you have a CAT tool of your own, or will the agency provide one? If you do not use a CAT tool in your work, applying this kind of discount grid definitely makes no sense, since any kind of "fuzzy" repetitions can only be utilized with a CAT tool. However, the agency surely expects you to use a CAT tool, so this point should be clarified directly.

Now, if we assume you use CAT, we can then have a clo
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The first question you need to check is if you will use a CAT tool for this work. Do you have a CAT tool of your own, or will the agency provide one? If you do not use a CAT tool in your work, applying this kind of discount grid definitely makes no sense, since any kind of "fuzzy" repetitions can only be utilized with a CAT tool. However, the agency surely expects you to use a CAT tool, so this point should be clarified directly.

Now, if we assume you use CAT, we can then have a closer look at this discount grid. The first thing that caught my eye is that 100% matches/repetitions do not appear in the grid at all. Obviously, the agency expects you to do this kind of repetition for free. This should be checked and discussed. At least in my language pair, even 101% matches need to be checked and sometimes to be changed, so that this is part of the work and should be paid (a rate like a review rate would be appropriate for this).

Next, my experience (in my pair, but probably in all other language pairs as well) tells me that "fuzzy" matches below 85% are all but worthless. Giving a discount for any match below 85% makes no economical sense, except maybe as a concession to the agency for whatever consideration.

That leaves the 85-94% and the 95-99% ranges. That part is debatable, but the offer of 15% for the 95-99% range is too low in any case.
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Jan Truper
Gurudutt Kamath
Ying-Ju Fang
 
Halyna Dema
Halyna Dema  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 02:02
English to Ukrainian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Sad to admit, but my uni did not provide a course on this. Apr 3, 2020

Are these reasonable rate percentages ? [/quote]
Are those really the percentages they quoted? Although I've used a CAT tool for years, I've accepted client-generated grids, but I do understand them. I started at the bottom and was surprised to see it doesn't mention repetitions or 100% matches. I suppose that means they pay zero? The 85-99% rates seemed reasonable, if a little odd. IMO, the 75-84% is low. But when I got to you being paid 50% for 50-74% matches, my eyes just widened! I wou
... See more
Are these reasonable rate percentages ? [/quote]
Are those really the percentages they quoted? Although I've used a CAT tool for years, I've accepted client-generated grids, but I do understand them. I started at the bottom and was surprised to see it doesn't mention repetitions or 100% matches. I suppose that means they pay zero? The 85-99% rates seemed reasonable, if a little odd. IMO, the 75-84% is low. But when I got to you being paid 50% for 50-74% matches, my eyes just widened! I would never accept any discount at all for those matches.

What is the CAT tools pricing grid?

What is the importance of this in our field?

How to utilize this to our (translators) advantage ?

I assume from those questions that, not only did you not study CAT tools at uni, but you still know absolutely nothing about them. Do you intend using one for this translation? If so, how "techie" are you? I know some people can pick these things up quickly, but I also know from personal experience that some of us don't. [/quote]


Yes, unfortunately, my uni has not been the most helpful when it comes to translation and CAT tools and anything else related to this matter. They were great with the theoretic parts of translation and interpretation, but not with the practice. I have already started to utilize SmartCat. I’ve just been finding random articles on different topics and translating them in there. It definitely something new, but I’m getting the hang of it. Once I feel comfortable enough with using such tool,I’ll invest in Trados (from the reviews, that’s the best one on the market).

Rate wise, I’m willing to try. I’m still “green” in the translation market, and frankly, I need the experience to gain knowledge and learn what what when it comes to translation. I’m sure, with time, I’ll be able to negotiate fair pricing. I just don’t want to low ball any other translators on the market.


[Edited at 2020-04-03 19:33 GMT]
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Gurudutt Kamath
 
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 10:02
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@Halyna Apr 3, 2020

Halyna Dema wrote:
Here is an example of the one they provided:
New at [••••] EUR
No Match = 100%
50 - 74% Match = 50% of No Match rate
75 - 84% Match = 50% of No Match rate
85 - 94% Match = 50% of No Match rate
95 - 99% Match = 15% of No Match rate

Are these reasonable rate percentages?


The percentages for 50 - 74% Match and for 75 - 84% Match are very low. Matches of these categories typically require a lot of work, but they're offering to pay you half of your normal word rate for them. However, this may depend on the type of text.

If you are able, tell them that you do not offer discounts for matches under 75% (and if you're feeling gutsy, tell them you don't offer discounts for matches under 85%).

I've read the other replies and I agree with all of it.

As for your question:

What is the CAT tools pricing grid?


It's a list that shows how much less you want to get paid for sentences that are similar to other sentences in the text or similar to other sentences that other translators have translated in the past. It is assumed that these similarities (called "fuzzy matches") will allow you to translate faster and thus do more work in less time. In the beginning, the fuzzy matches won't save you any time (you may end up spending more time on them than if you had translated from scratch), but eventually you'll learn how to use fuzzy matches to your advantage.

Take the line "95 - 99% Match Word 15% of No Match Word", for example. It means that for sentences that have a 95% to 99% fuzzy match, you'll get paid only 15% of your usual per-word rate for each of the words in those sentences.

So, if for example you have a sentence with 20 words, and 19 of them are the same as another sentence in the same job, then it's [more or less] a "95%" match, so if your usual per-word rate is USD 0.10 per word, you'll get (USD 0.10 x 15% x 20 words) = USD 0.30 for that specific sentence instead of USD 2.00 if it were a completely "new" sentence.

The software will calculate all of these things for you (and you can generally trust the client to provide you with the correct calculation before or afterwards), so you don't have to calculate all these things yourself. In fact, for most online tools (e.g. SmartCat), you would not be able to double-check the calculations anyway.

Kay makes a very good point in that if you don't use a CAT tool or if the client doesn't provide the old translations or connect them to the online tool (if you use an online tool), then the grid is irrelevant and you should be paid your full, normal rate. If you use a CAT tool that is so cumbersome that using it does not allow you to work faster (even if you are experienced in dealing with fuzzy matches), then the discount grid is also irrelevant for you.


[Edited at 2020-04-03 12:36 GMT]


Gurudutt Kamath
 


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CAT tools grid and pricing. (Money matters)







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