solidaire ou conjoint

English translation: the tender will specify whether the co-contractors have several or joint liability

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:solidaire ou conjoint
English translation:the tender will specify whether the co-contractors have several or joint liability
Entered by: Jessica Crockett

22:14 Mar 29, 2015
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law: Contract(s)
French term or phrase: solidaire ou conjoint
I'm translating a set of general administrative terms and conditions and have come across a sticky phrase:

"Le marché spécifie si les cotraitants sont solidaires ou conjoints"

I've found a good explanation in French of the difference between "solidaire" and "conjoint" (http://www.marche-public.fr/Marches-publics/Textes/CCAG/CCAG... but I'm running into some difficulties figuring out how to distinguish between them in English. All I've been able to come up with so far is "joint and several" for "solidaire" and "joint" for "conjoint", but using the word "joint" in both seems less than ideal to me.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!
Jessica Crockett
United States
Local time: 17:40
the tender will specify whether the co-contractors have several or joint liability
Explanation:
"Le marché spécifie si les cotraitants sont solidaires ou conjoints"
=
"Le marché spécifie si les cotraitants seront solidairement ou conjointement responsables de la bonne exécution des obligations contractuelles"

NOTA BENE: "ou" => soit "solidairement responsables" soit "conjointement responsables"

=
the tender will specify whether the co-contractors will have several or joint liability

"several liability" and "joint liability" are two different kind of group liability, NOT necessarily bundled together.

"solidairement responsables" = "joint liability"

"conjointement responsables" = "several liability"


see

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/law_contracts/56...

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Note added at 2 hrs (2015-03-30 01:04:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_and_several_liability
Selected response from:

Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:40
Grading comment
Thanks for the help! :-)
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +3the tender will specify whether the co-contractors have several or joint liability
Daryo
3Are jointly and severally liable // Joint and several liability
Jean-Claude Gouin
3jointly and severally or jointly only
Francis Murphy (X)


Discussion entries: 4





  

Answers


54 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Are jointly and severally liable // Joint and several liability


Explanation:
*



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 heures (2015-03-30 00:42:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

If you don't like 'and', try 'or' ...

Jean-Claude Gouin
Canada
Local time: 18:40
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 36

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Evgeny Artemov (X)
33 mins
  -> спасибо Evgeny ...

agree  Jennifer Levey
35 mins
  -> Thank you Robin ...

disagree  Daryo: the ST says "or" not "and"// do you need help not assuming that just because "A and B" is the only combination you have seen so far, "A or B" must be wrong?
1 hr
  -> Do you want help translating your remarks in proper English?

disagree  AllegroTrans: You have not made the distinction that is in the source text, both of your suggestions are essentially the same
10 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +3
Le marché spécifie si les cotraitants sont solidaires ou conjoints
the tender will specify whether the co-contractors have several or joint liability


Explanation:
"Le marché spécifie si les cotraitants sont solidaires ou conjoints"
=
"Le marché spécifie si les cotraitants seront solidairement ou conjointement responsables de la bonne exécution des obligations contractuelles"

NOTA BENE: "ou" => soit "solidairement responsables" soit "conjointement responsables"

=
the tender will specify whether the co-contractors will have several or joint liability

"several liability" and "joint liability" are two different kind of group liability, NOT necessarily bundled together.

"solidairement responsables" = "joint liability"

"conjointement responsables" = "several liability"


see

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/law_contracts/56...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2015-03-30 01:04:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_and_several_liability

Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:40
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 112
Grading comment
Thanks for the help! :-)

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  B D Finch: "Or" rather than "and" is, indeed, crucial here. One little niggle: for some reason "joint" always comes before "several" - it just sounds right that way around.
7 hrs
  -> Thanks!

agree  AllegroTrans
9 hrs
  -> Thanks!

agree  Ph_B (X)
14 hrs
  -> Thanks!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
jointly and severally or jointly only


Explanation:
I hate to split hairs here but it appears that this is the distinction in the source expression. Druide Antidote dictionary, defintion SOLIDAIRE: "DROIT – Dans lequel chaque personne répond du groupe. Responsabilité solidaire. Obligation solidaire. Débiteurs solidaires. i.e. jointly and severally. Conjoint: jointly, but not severally. This explanation accounts for the OR in the source expression.



Example sentence(s):
  • L'accord spécifie si les cotraitants sont responsable de manière conjointe ou solidaire. The agreement specifies whether the contractors are jointly liable or jointly and severally liable.
Francis Murphy (X)
Canada
Local time: 19:40
Works in field
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Daryo: the difference that you call "splitting of hair" can sink a company for someone else's mess, not even its own ... + why do you insist on "jointly and severally" when it's only "severally"?
4 days
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