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francés: clerc tonsuré

inglés translation: tonsured cleric






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Entrada de glosario (tomada de la pregunta de abajo)
Término o frase en francés:clerc tonsuré
Traducción al inglés:tonsured cleric
Aportado por:Michael GREEN
Opciones:
- Contribuir a esta entrada

00:56 Jan 1, 2008Login or register (free) for more options.
Traducciones de francés a inglés [PRO]
Historia / Clergy
Término o frase en francés: clerc tonsuré
In a history journal article about seminarist and, later, doctor Armand-Jean de Mauvillain (1651-1677).

Context:

"Grand fut notre surprise en découvrant un acte notarié, daté du 5 juillet 1669, qualifiant le jeune Mauvillain '**clerc tonçuré (tonsuré)** de cestte ville de Paris y demeurant au séminaire Saint-Lazare, proche la porte Saint-Denis.'"

"Il est vrai que Armand-Jean, étant **clerc tonsuré,** pouvait bénéficier d'un canonicat, la tonsure, signe d'adoption par l'Église, étant la condition sine qua non d'attibution d'une prébende."

Does this mean he was priestly clerk? Or clerk to a priest? Or something else?

Merci!

femme
femme
Estados Unidos
Local time: 10:40
Clarification request(s) and response
writeaway: 09:20 Jan 1, 2008: did you check the dictionaries or www?

tonsured cleric
Explicación:
"clerc" is clerk, or cleric, not priest : though a clerk in the middle ages was probably a priest.
See quote below (window at Chartres Cathedral).


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2008-01-01 09:06:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Or http://donjim.blogspot.com/2004/04/whats-subdeacon.html
"the Church allows any tonsured cleric (the equivalent of a seminarian with candidacy) ..."
Respuesta elegida de:

Michael GREEN
Francia
Local time: 19:40
Nota de quien pregunta a quien contesta
Merci beaucoup!
4 puntos KudoZ otorgados a esta respuesta



RESUMEN DE TODAS LAS RESPUESTAS DADAS EN INGLÉS
5 +7tonsured cleric
Michael GREEN
4 -2TONSURED PRIESTetienne muylle i wallace


  

Respuestas

3 horas   Nivel de confianza: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 Coincidencias de otros usuarios (netas) -2
TONSURED PRIEST


Explicación:
In seminars, to become a priest, you first got the first diaconate, then with the second diaconate you got the tonsure. So here they mean the stage previous to be a full "official" priest, but already being able to give communion, etc

etienne muylle i wallace
España
Local time: 18:40
Especializado en este campo
Idioma materno: holandés
Pts. PRO en la categoría: 4

Comentarios de otros usuarios sobre esta respuesta (y réplicas del usuario que envió la respuesta)
Coincido L.J.Wessel van Leeuwen: the head gets shaved, then a "crowned" by being ordained into priesthood
1 hora
Discrepo Michael GREEN: See below - a "clerc" is not necessarily a priest - and usually isn't one.
5 horas
Discrepo writeaway: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&uid=16060... where does it say he was a priest?
5 horas
Discrepo Christopher Crockett: Necessary distinction between a "cleric" and a "priest": All priests are clerics, but not all clerics are priests.
1 día10 horas
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8 horas   Nivel de confianza: Answerer confidence 5/5 Coincidencias de otros usuarios (netas) +7
tonsured cleric


Explicación:
"clerc" is clerk, or cleric, not priest : though a clerk in the middle ages was probably a priest.
See quote below (window at Chartres Cathedral).


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2008-01-01 09:06:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Or http://donjim.blogspot.com/2004/04/whats-subdeacon.html
"the Church allows any tonsured cleric (the equivalent of a seminarian with candidacy) ..."

Ejemplos de uso:
  • At left is an altar covered with a cloth- a large gold chalice stands on it. At center kneels a tonsured cleric.

    Referencia: http://www.fanfiction.net/dictionary.php?word=+Cleric
    Referencia: http://images.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/i/image/image-idx?vie...
Michael GREEN
Francia
Local time: 19:40
Trabaja en este campo
Idioma materno: inglés
Pts. PRO en la categoría: 4
Nota de quien pregunta a quien contesta
Merci beaucoup!

Comentarios de otros usuarios sobre esta respuesta (y réplicas del usuario que envió la respuesta)
Coincido BrigitteHilgner: My spontaneous idea, too. It's definitely wrong to assume that a medieval clerk was always a priest.
31 minutos
  -> Thank you : and the text is 17c, when a clerk, tonsured or not, was even less likely to be a priest :)
Coincido Bashiqa
1 hora
  -> Thank you !
Coincido Rachel Fell: http://mauvillain.aliceblogs.fr/blog/_archives/2006/10/8/239...
2 horas
  -> Thank you Rachel
Coincido MDI-IDM
3 horas
  -> Thank you
Coincido emiledgar
8 horas
  -> Thank you
Coincido Patricia Fierro, M. Sc.
9 horas
  -> Thank you
Coincido Christopher Crockett: Armand-Jean held a prebend in a church (e.g., the cathedral), but he only had to have been tonsured to do this --he did not have to be a priest and may or may not have been one. Some medieval exegetes saw tonsure as typologically equal to circumcision.
1 día5 horas
  -> Thank you. Well, put like that, I think I'd rather be tonsured ... ;)
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