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SDL Trados Studio 2017 is coming soon!
Thread poster: SDL_Dan
Bernhard Sulzer
Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 01:55
English to German
+ ...
How is AdaptiveMT different from what we already do with Trados? Aug 19, 2016

SDL_Dan wrote:


AdaptiveMT

Our AdaptiveMT engines self-learn from your post edits, so your MT output is unique to your style, content and terminology.


Question: What do you mean exactly by your "MT output is unique to your style, content and terminology."

You're talking about MT - which MT?
Let's assume for a second I use a free MT tool available on the web connected to Trados, or for that matter, any MT tool available, even paid tools, that I use for the first time. Or your new tool - AdaptiveMT - that is at first filled with my previous TMs, right???!!!

What you get is not a translation, it's some words or phrases or sentences that the tool has gathered from a library of words, segments, phrases, sentences, whatever.
It's most likely not something you can accept without looking and, most likely, have to edit (you yourself as a human) to "correct" it. Do you know that can sometimes take more time than simply translating it from scratch? I don't see how this would already be an adaptation suited to your translation style, content and terminology - not the content of the new text anyhow. Or is it adaptive in the sense that I will get bombarded with 30 -45% matches from the emgine when I try to translate?

Question: That corrected version then becomes what - part of my TM or part of a newly created SDL MT engine and library that is provided by Trados 2017?

Question: If so or if it's simply TM, how is this going to be different from working with a personal overall TM that you continue to develop?

For new texts, you will get suggestions based on the TM and if they don't at least match (at least from words used - not necessarily in content) 70%, I don't need to see them anyway.

Question: How is that new technology (adaptive MT) that you are advertising different from working with TMs?


To quote from an ad I received from you about it: (I bolded parts I wanted to stress):

(Quote)
"Harnessing the true power of machine translation (MT), computer generated translation, is about to get even easier! For the first time, machine translation (MT) will learn from your post-edited corrections directly from within a CAT tool! AdaptiveMT - coming soon within Studio 2017 - will adapt to suit your translation style, content and terminology, delivering MT output that is unique to you.
How does it work?
Each time you make a change to the machine translation output in Studio 2017 and confirm the translated segment, the engine will learn and apply it in real time to the next sentences. The result is faster translation with less frustration at having to post-edit MT suggestions time and time again."(Unquote)


Delivering MT output???

Question: Isn't it delivering from what you (the human) has put in? Like a TM?

It's not like you can put a text into Trados, click a button and then you get the translation already with your style? That's a really naive assumption if we're talking about new texts or anything that doesn't closely match what you put into that MT library before.

the engine will learn and apply it in real time to the next sentences.

So, isn't that like an immediate update of the TM which is taken into account as soon as you continue on to the next translation segment?!

Question: Isn't that what is already possible with the TM? And again, that doesn't mean I myself don't have to adapt this and change it for the new text I am translating. It certainly does.

Question: Where does this engine reside and what does it do differently from the TM?

Question: And why do you call it MT. Machines don't "translate".
They match segments based on occurrence and structure of words without "thinking" about the new context.

faster translation with less frustration at having to post-edit MT suggestions time and time again

Question: How is that going to be faster? And less frustrating than working with one's own TMs as before?

The term "post-editing" is also misleading. Because what you get is not based on the context of your new text but on text that is stored in TMs or maybe a new separate MT engine library that matches in some way what occurs in the new text? If I go this route and use the library/TM, I have to be aware of the new context, and to me these suggestions might not at all fit and have to be changed extensively. I don't see how you can promise that this process will now be faster and less frustrating. Please explain.

PS: I do use Trados.

[Edited at 2016-08-19 14:42 GMT]


 
Michael Beijer
Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:55
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
the price I quoted indeed included VAT Aug 19, 2016

SDL_Steve wrote:

Hi Michael,

I checked your account to make sure you had received the correct pricing as your quote did not sound correct at all (we would have refunded the incorrect over payment if this was the case).
Our exchange rate is calculated normally at the beginning of the year- however due to the recent drop in the £/€ value exchange rate, we had already made the necessary adjustments before releasing this offer.

After checking your invoice I can see you actually paid just £120.00 (XE.com = 139.00€) and not the quoted £147.60- the difference being VAT of which we have no control over unfortunately.

I see also your previous order was subject to VAT- hence why it (£ order) may appear unfair based on the list (€) pricing which does NOT include VAT.

If you are in receipt of a valid VAT number, please let us have this so we can update the invoice and refund you the VAT payment and you will then be able to see the £/€ pricing is indeed very similar (once VAT payments are NOT included.)

Kind regards

Steve



Thanks Steve,

Indeed, I gave the price including VAT, as I am not VAT registered here in the UK. It isn't mandatory unless you earn above the annual threshold. Although it costs me a bit more here and there, it saves me a hell of a lot of paperwork and hassle.

Regards,

Michael


 
Michael Beijer
Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:55
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
there you go again ;-) Aug 19, 2016

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:

SDL_Dan wrote:


AdaptiveMT

Our AdaptiveMT engines self-learn from your post edits, so your MT output is unique to your style, content and terminology.


What do you mean exactly by your "MT output is unique to your style, content and terminology."

You're talking about MT - which MT?
Let's assume for a second I use a free MT tool available on the web connected to Trados, or for that matter, any MT tool available, even paid tools, that I use for the first time. Or your new tool - AdaptiveMT - that is at first filled with my previous TMs, right???!!!

What you get is not a translation, it's some words or phrases or sentences that the tool has gathered from a library of words, segments, phrases, sentences, whatever.
It's most likely not something you can accept without looking and most likely, have to edit (you yourself as a human) to "correct" it. Do you know that that will probably take more time than simply translating it from scratch? I don't see how this would already be an adaptation suited to your translation style, content and terminology - not the content of the new text anyhow.

Question: That corrected version then becomes what - part of my TM or part of a newly created SDL MT engine and library that is provided by Trados 2017?

Question: If so or if it's simply TM, how is this going to be different from working with a personal overall TM that you continue to develop?

For new texts, you will get suggestions based on the TM and if they don't at least match (at least from words used - not necessarily in content) 70%, I don't need to see them anyway.

Question: How is that new technology (adaptive MT) that you are advertising different from working with TMs?


To quote from an ad I received from you about it: (I bolded parts I wanted to stress):

(Quote)
"Harnessing the true power of machine translation (MT), computer generated translation, is about to get even easier! For the first time, machine translation (MT) will learn from your post-edited corrections directly from within a CAT tool! AdaptiveMT - coming soon within Studio 2017 - will adapt to suit your translation style, content and terminology, delivering MT output that is unique to you.
How does it work?
Each time you make a change to the machine translation output in Studio 2017 and confirm the translated segment, the engine will learn and apply it in real time to the next sentences. The result is faster translation with less frustration at having to post-edit MT suggestions time and time again."(Unquote)


Delivering MT output???

Question: Isn't it delivering from what you (the human) has put in? Like a TM?

It's not like you can put a text into Trados, click a button and then you get the translation already with your style? That's a really naive assumptions if we're talking about new texts or anything that doesn't closely match what you put into that MT library before.

the engine will learn and apply it in real time to the next sentences.

So, isn't that like an immediate update of the TM which is taken into account as soon as you continue on to the next translation segment?!

Question: Isn't that what is already possible with the TM? And again, that doesn't mean I have to adapt this and change it for the new text I am translating. It certainly does.

Question: Where does this engine reside and what does it do differently from the TM?

Question: And why do you call it MT. Machines don't "translate".
They match segments based on occurrence and structure of words without "thinking" about the new context.

faster translation with less frustration at having to post-edit MT suggestions time and time again

Question: How is that going to be faster? And less frustrating than working with one's own TMs as before?

The term "post-editing" is also misleading. Because what you get is not based on the context of your new text but on text that is stored in TMs or maybe a new separate MT engine library that matches in some way what occurs in the new text? If I go this route and use the library/TM, I have to be aware of the new context, and to me these suggestions might not at all fit and have to be changed extensively. I don't see how you can promise that this process will now be faster and less frustrating. Please explain.

PS: I do use Trados.

[Edited at 2016-08-19 14:27 GMT]


It's adaptive in the sense that when you change the MT output, Studio now remembers what you changed and applies these changes to the next MT output. As to the question of whether machine translation should rightly be called "translation", to be honest, you can call it whatever you want. I don't really care. Arguing about this is a waste of time. In my language pair/direction and fields (Dutch>English) Google Translate and Microsoft Translator often produce amazing results that only require limited editing or moving around. I am therefore very much looking forward to this new feature. In my daily work, I often find MT much more useful than my own TMs, for work with few matches of course.

Michael


 
Bernhard Sulzer
Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 01:55
English to German
+ ...
There I go again Aug 19, 2016

Michael Joseph Wdowiak Beijer wrote:

It's adaptive in the sense that when you change the MT output, Studio now remembers what you changed and applies these changes to the next MT output. As to the question of whether machine translation should rightly be called "translation", to be honest, you can call it whatever you want. I don't really care. Arguing about this is a waste of time. In my language pair/direction and fields (Dutch>English) Google Translate and Microsoft Translator often produce amazing results that only require limited editing or moving around. I am therefore very much looking forward to this new feature. In my daily work, I often find MT much more useful than my own TMs, for work with few matches of course.

Michael



What's wrong with questioning an advert and wanting to get to the bottom of it? We've been promised wonders from MT before, and it certainly isn't true from my experience. If you deal with very similar texts/lists, it's no miracle task to easily match things up. I don't need an expensive tool for that.
And finding words like "post-editing" and MT in advertisement for a tool that costs many hundreds of dollars is reason enough for me to want to find out all I can before I even consider looking forward to it or buying it. But I am sure there will be a 30-day trial period, right?! However, that doesn't mean I don't want to discuss with Trados representatives as well as colleagues what things mean to me as a translator and what they do for me and what not.

PS: Your explanation of adaptive MT output doesn't really get to the bottom of what adaptive MT output means, really.

[Edited at 2016-08-19 14:57 GMT]


 
Bernhard Sulzer
Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 01:55
English to German
+ ...
My experience is very different Aug 19, 2016

Michael Joseph Wdowiak Beijer wrote:

It's adaptive in the sense that when you change the MT output, Studio now remembers what you changed and applies these changes to the next MT output.


Sure, you might get more suggestions but that's true for TMs already. What's this new MT all about and why in the world should I use it? I want to find out more about it. It's not clear to me. Additional task to using TMs? Why should this MT engine be better than my TMs?

Michael Joseph Wdowiak Beijer wrote:
As to the question of whether machine translation should rightly be called "translation", to be honest, you can call it whatever you want. I don't really care. Arguing about this is a waste of time.

Well, I guess I won't be arguing with you about it.

Michael Joseph Wdowiak Beijer wrote:
In my language pair/direction and fields (Dutch>English) Google Translate and Microsoft Translator often produce amazing results that only require limited editing or moving around.

Well, I can't say that for myself.
I tried Google Translate and it messes with your head- especially if you assume it must be helping you.

Michael Joseph Wdowiak Beijer wrote:
I am therefore very much looking forward to this new feature. In my daily work, I often find MT much more useful than my own TMs, for work with few matches of course.


I really can't say that for myself. For me, right now, adaptiveMT doesn't mean anything and the mentioning of post-editing in the same ad made me very suspicious.



[Edited at 2016-08-19 15:13 GMT]


 
SDL_Steve
SDL_Steve  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:55
English to Arabic
AdaptiveMT Aug 19, 2016

Hi Bernhard/Michael

As the launch of Studio 2017 has only been recently announced, we are ourselves learning about the new additions and functionality.
I would suggest therefore registering for one of our LIVE webinars that deal with the questions raised here so far-
http://www.translationzone.com/events/webinars/

My team and I will get back to you ASA
... See more
Hi Bernhard/Michael

As the launch of Studio 2017 has only been recently announced, we are ourselves learning about the new additions and functionality.
I would suggest therefore registering for one of our LIVE webinars that deal with the questions raised here so far-
http://www.translationzone.com/events/webinars/

My team and I will get back to you ASAP on this topic once we ourselves have learnt more.

Kr

SDL-Steve
Collapse


 
Bernhard Sulzer
Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 01:55
English to German
+ ...
AdaptiveMT Aug 19, 2016

SDL_Steve wrote:

Hi Bernhard/Michael

As the launch of Studio 2017 has only been recently announced, we are ourselves learning about the new additions and functionality.
I would suggest therefore registering for one of our LIVE webinars that deal with the questions raised here so far-
http://www.translationzone.com/events/webinars/

My team and I will get back to you ASAP on this topic once we ourselves have learnt more.

Kr

SDL-Steve


Thank you for your post Steve and willingness to discuss it.
Bernhard


 
Bernhard Sulzer
Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 01:55
English to German
+ ...
Is AdaptiveMT supposed to replace TMs? Aug 19, 2016

Before I forget, I just want to post this question here for future discussion:
If the adaptiveMT engine is new, are we replacing with its use the old TM system or not. Or is using it an additional step? How exactly will it make things faster for us?


 
Wojciech_ (X)
Wojciech_ (X)
Poland
Local time: 06:55
English to Polish
+ ...
My view Aug 19, 2016

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:

Before I forget, I just want to post this question here for future discussion:
If the adaptiveMT engine is new, are we replacing with its use the old TM system or not. Or is using it an additional step? How exactly will it make things faster for us?


Hi, from what I know, AdaptiveMT will be just a new form of the SDL Language Cloud optional machine translation engine, which you can use or not alongside your TMs and other MT engines.
If you use it, then it will adapt its output to how you edited its previous results.

Just to give you an example.
If the MT engine incorrectly translates Polish:
"Hotel oferuje gościom nowoczesną SIŁOWNIĘ"
into English
"The hotel offers its guests an advanced POWER PLANT",
I can post-edit the output (or simply write my own translation from scratch), changing the "power plant" into the context-appropriate "gym". Then the MT engine will learn to recognize that in such a context (probably because of the presence of the words "hotel" and "guests") the word "gym" is more appropriate than "power plant".

That's it. Perhaps not revolutionary, but useful.

[Edited at 2016-08-19 18:04 GMT]

[Edited at 2016-08-19 18:21 GMT]


 
Stepan Konev
Stepan Konev  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 08:55
English to Russian
Nice look, nice price, nice blah-blah-blah Aug 20, 2016

Can Trados now read TMs in both directions without AnyTM including server-based versions (that even AnyTM could not help)?

 
Geneviève von Levetzow
Geneviève von Levetzow  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:55
French to German
+ ...
TMs in both directions Aug 21, 2016

Hello,
it would be nice. I have not only a TM but numerous - and it takes much time to convert all if I will translate from German to French and vice versa.
And I would be great if the Translation Units would be more as 1,000 by editing.
Another function I am missing is a speller for the TM's.

Geneviève


 
Michael Beijer
Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:55
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
AnyTM Aug 21, 2016

Geneviève von Levetzow wrote:

Hello,
it would be nice. I have not only a TM but numerous - and it takes much time to convert all if I will translate from German to French and vice versa.
And I would be great if the Translation Units would be more as 1,000 by editing.
Another function I am missing is a speller for the TM's.

Geneviève


Hi Geneviève,

I might be wrong, as I am relatively new to Studio, but doesn't this already work via AnyTM?

Michael


 
Wojciech_ (X)
Wojciech_ (X)
Poland
Local time: 06:55
English to Polish
+ ...
AnyTM Aug 21, 2016

Michael Joseph Wdowiak Beijer wrote:

Geneviève von Levetzow wrote:

Hello,
it would be nice. I have not only a TM but numerous - and it takes much time to convert all if I will translate from German to French and vice versa.
And I would be great if the Translation Units would be more as 1,000 by editing.
Another function I am missing is a speller for the TM's.

Geneviève


Hi Geneviève,

I might be wrong, as I am relatively new to Studio, but doesn't this already work via AnyTM?

Michael


Any TM very much looks like a temporary solution, because AFAIK Studio must then create a new TM anyway, so the process can be long for large TMs.

I must say that this (the opportunity to use TMs with any direction), as well as vertical view are the things I miss in Studio the most.


 
Robert Rietvelt
Robert Rietvelt  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:55
Member (2006)
Spanish to Dutch
+ ...
Adaptive MT Aug 21, 2016

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:

Michael Joseph Wdowiak Beijer wrote:

It's adaptive in the sense that when you change the MT output, Studio now remembers what you changed and applies these changes to the next MT output.


Sure, you might get more suggestions but that's true for TMs already. What's this new MT all about and why in the world should I use it? I want to find out more about it. It's not clear to me. Additional task to using TMs? Why should this MT engine be better than my TMs?

Michael Joseph Wdowiak Beijer wrote:
As to the question of whether machine translation should rightly be called "translation", to be honest, you can call it whatever you want. I don't really care. Arguing about this is a waste of time.

Well, I guess I won't be arguing with you about it.

Michael Joseph Wdowiak Beijer wrote:
In my language pair/direction and fields (Dutch>English) Google Translate and Microsoft Translator often produce amazing results that only require limited editing or moving around.

Well, I can't say that for myself.
I tried Google Translate and it messes with your head- especially if you assume it must be helping you.

Michael Joseph Wdowiak Beijer wrote:
I am therefore very much looking forward to this new feature. In my daily work, I often find MT much more useful than my own TMs, for work with few matches of course.


I really can't say that for myself. For me, right now, adaptiveMT doesn't mean anything and the mentioning of post-editing in the same ad made me very suspicious.



[Edited at 2016-08-19 15:13 GMT]


My TM's are adaptive, but don't translate all. After all those years I am working as a translator I thought I 'translated it all' , but in most of my translations my TM's are diccionaries at best, thank god for Concordance. MT's translate all, but the result till sofar is sh.. (Michael, Nl-EN might be great, but the other way around is mud).

So I am, just as Bernhard, very curious about the adaptivity of this new MT.


 
GKT
GKT  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 14:55
Member (2006)
Japanese to French
+ ...
What about privacy? Aug 23, 2016

Hi Dan,

Thank you for the news.

I've read the following on the TranslationZone blog :

"By combining AdaptiveMT with our AutoSuggest technology, you can translate faster than ever before!
For those with privacy concerns, everything is private to each individual and confidentiality is an essential priority."

Could you develop a little ? I've been using Trados/SDL for 12 years or so, but I don't use MT because of the privacy issue. I'd like
... See more
Hi Dan,

Thank you for the news.

I've read the following on the TranslationZone blog :

"By combining AdaptiveMT with our AutoSuggest technology, you can translate faster than ever before!
For those with privacy concerns, everything is private to each individual and confidentiality is an essential priority."

Could you develop a little ? I've been using Trados/SDL for 12 years or so, but I don't use MT because of the privacy issue. I'd like to know how SDL Trados Studio 2017 will handle it. Thank you.


[Edited at 2016-08-23 05:39 GMT]
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